The trader and currency system ruins the survival experience

[HexTer]

There is no survival game that allows you to buy almost anything with money like the current game. Even the game Rust where the server will die after 3 days doesn't allow you to buy rifles and snipers with money. What do poi mean when you just need to find a place to make good money and buy everything you need? Especially a game that emphasizes"Supermax survival open world", which completely ruins the purpose of roaming and player interaction. Traders are purely botshops that most survival players will hate from the start, its sole purpose is to serve pvp players who want to be fully equipped after earning 100k dollars in 2 hours at the power plant nuclear then pvp, no point in survival whatsoever
- Currency system ruins the shooting experience camp with infinite respawns, victory belongs to the one with more guns and money to respawn, there is no single ending, consider locking respawn zones and beds after they respawn a certain number of times to prevent infinite pvp.
- The current idea of ​​gold is so bad, locking it behind a gold card and using the money to convert it to gold doesn't make it the special currency it needs to be, it has to be something hard to get like uranium, or drops when you kill mechs, are in a killbox, or receive from future difficult missions, if it's money then it's just money, a toggle doesn't change its value

[theoriginalyankee]

Originally posted by Glubo:

1) Traders. They give you money and they take it back. That what gives money a value.

You're basically saying that "the fact that it happens is what causes it to happen". I hope you understand why I will refrain from further arguing that point. Besides, you said I was right, so not much to argue about :P

Originally posted by Glubo:

2) Realism should not break fun.
I think this game have no goal or purpose where to aim and everyone decides for himself how to have fun here. One can enjoy PVP and fast kill/die games, the others enjoy PVE and like looting, gathering, building large bases. Someone just like to loot and convert money into Gold.

In my (and many other people's) opinion, realism is fun. Hence, breaking realism breaks fun.

Otherwise, I fully agree with you, that the game [currently] has no goal or purpose, and the way in which you have fun is a matter of personal choice, and I like it that way. For me, this is a survival game first (coincidentally, that's what it still advertises itself as), and in my understanding of the term, "surviving" is much synonymous to "not dying"... hence I play the game in such a way that when I die, I consider I lost the game and I start completely anew, perhaps even on a different server, with a new character. Hence, for me, the concept and mechanics of respawning are completely irrelevant and ridiculous. But, that's perhaps just me and/or a minority of players. The beauty of SCUM used to be in how it permitted a huge variety of playstyles and personal interpretations of what "fun" is. And that is slowly fading away, unfortunately. And no, traders [by solidifying a buy/sell meta which forsakes all nuances of realism] did not help with that.

[Steffie_Stefan]

Originally posted by Glubo:

I agree to some degree. I think there should be settings allowing to pick which items can be sold from traders and for how much. I don't play the official servers but would definitely like to see many items unavailable or very expensive for sale.

Would be also nice to have some sort of default survival PVE settings for rental servers where prices are adjusted so you need to spend more effort surviving and finding the items.

Another thing is to bring the ability for admins to build community trades that will not degrade and place a NPC trader with some special items to sell/buy.

p.s.: I don't own my own server and not sure what's available now.

In your own server u can set almost everything; Uf u like it, u can set, that the traders buy or sell NOTHING from/to players, if u like it.
In singleplayer - mode it is set from the startup a little bit moderate, so that really new players can learn something how to play aso. If u want it "hard" - join a server where the server-setting are hard. thefore u have to the read how the server-owner has done the setiings or simply ask the server-owner before joining. Normally the game is not created for singleplayer to do all alone. See the singleplayer-mode only as an option to learn some basics, nothing more.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by theoriginalyankee:

while your observations are true and valid, I think you're not even touching on the most ridiculous aspect of including [this model of] traders in the game: namely, the fact that it inherently contradicts the premises on which the world itself is built.

What is the setting of SCUM? A reality show where convicts are dropped in a vast prison, for the amusement of TV audiences. Ok... let's go with that, as implausible as it seems. Now, if you accept this premise, it means that the entire environment is controlled, and artificially maintained so that it serves the purpose of the show - and thus, the outposts themselves can only be either : a) run by TEC01 (meaning designed, supplied, staffed, provisioned, monitored, protected and managed) by The Corporation, or b) run by gangs of the convict population itself (more likely, considering the vendors appearance, demeanor, etc).

So, if the outposts (and the vendors therein) are basically convict rings who claimed the turf and are permitted by TEC01 to stay in business because it increases viewership rates, then consider:
1) the economy itself is implausible, considering that it runs on actual physical currency (plus the virtualization inherent in bank accounts, ATMs throughout the world, gas stations, etc). If a bank is permitted in a prison, and physical paper money too (as in, money which is still accepted as legal tender outside the prison world, presumably backed by the Central Bank of Croatia, haha), then that economy is inherently governed by all the normal laws of supply, demand, fiscal and monetary policies of a modern nation state, etc. etc. Which, to cut a long story short, means that you need an accurate re-creation of the underlying principles of producing and circulating goods and services, for that economy to sustain itself. Right now, that is entirely absent and impossible.
In short: if i go to a trader (who is a convict, just like me) to buy and AK-47 or to sell a useful item, like a chainsaw, (but note this also seems to apply to dildos and pink ghillie suits, willy warmers and Halloween masks) the exchange should be anchored in inherent usefulness. What is plausible in the idea that I buy/sell stuff for money?!?! how could i ever accept the proposition that money serves me on the island? what gives money value, in our prison, is the ultimate question... and of course, the answer is, "nothing".
2) the choice of fiat currency, instead of a plausible barter system (e.g., "I give you 2 magazines for an AK, plus a nice haunch of meat from the boar I hunted, in exchange for that chainsaw") ---> this choice was probably motivated a lot by the need to control the availability of gas, and to manage respawn frequency by making it a commodity which "costs" you some resource. Now, if you acknowledge that, then you really cant engage in any discussion whatosever about realism.

yup

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by 76561199165205804:

The trading zone should be a service area rather than an area that offers an "infinite supply of goods."

+1
This is a good middle ground. "Trading" zones should be "special service" zones. They still can technically sell some stuff like base limit expansion kits or upgraded car parts, but still, it's more like a service than a shop. Of course the list of sevices should be expanded.

In my opinion, traders shouldn't sell anything players can craft or find on their own, even if it is a very rare item. I play on vanilla official server and everyone I see who is not a freshspawn or new to the game have tactical armor, automatic weapon with AP rounds and red dots or scopes and military clothes. because even on vanilla settings it is too easy to bring some junk, sell it and buy best is slot stuff, all you need to do is grind some fame points. or have a separate character on another acc with high amount of points for sole purpose of staying in trade zone and buying stuff, which is pretty common.

And NPCs shouldn't buy anything either. Instead we should have a special NPC (a smuggler perhaps?) in the zone who will buy valuables that are otherwise useless. Things like jewelry, decorated variants of guns, furs, art pieces, expensive alcohol, celebrity signed sport items, graphite from nuclear zone and so on... as for uranium, in my opinion it should be used only in crafting but that is just an opinion and a topic for another discussion.

This will give a reason for players to actually explore and visit POIs and other places like sunken ships or caves as well as all sorts of civilian buildings. And go in the forests to hunt fur animals. And if done right, money will be harder to get and hoard. Since I started playing on new server recently, I did two runs to trader zone with some common junk and now I have enough money to not fear death at all and respawn in sector without a second thought. And this is vanilla official server. Imagine not to be scared to die in a SURVIVAL game.

Now what bothers me the most since the traders were introduced. Not even once I had a friendly encouter with a player. Everyone shoot on sight. I myself too feel like attacking everyone I meet. The reason is pretty clear - the stakes are too high now and no one want to risk loosing fame points and money. Even more so, it is benificial to kill everyone you see, because every extra fame point counts. In the older days of Scum almost every second encouter with a player I had were friendly. But this is a subjective matter and Scum is a cruel game so be it. But what I find problematic is "everyone SHOOT on sight". I don't even remember when was the last time I had a melee engagement or even a clunky shootout with impovised weapons. Even a pretty common scenario where both of you had handguns and bullets but no magazines and had to chamber load one bullet a time. But nowadays every hobo has at least a fully functioning handgun. Hell, even bullets are basically limitless. In the past I had to really count my ammo and think if I am willing to spend it or not. and this is a situation for somewhat casual hobo players. More hardcore players who spent some time grind fame points just buy the best stuff and don't even look in the direction of mid tier stuff. It doesn't feel like a survival pvp game. it feels like PUBG with extra steps.

Sorry, I wanted this post to be constructive but it became more like a rant towards the end. I just feel like it becomes harder and harder for me to love this game and all the problems that make me feel like it come down to traders system.

[Salad Guy]

Pretty sure as someone suggested. Go to a server that has trader inventory disabled. Your problem is solved.

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by Salad Guy:

Pretty sure as someone suggested. Go to a server that has trader inventory disabled. Your problem is solved.

There are no such servers with good online and live community. I actually did a quick search just now and didn't find even dead servers like that.

[Notim Portant]

I definitely agree that the shop outpost needs to be reworked. It should only include a barber NPC, an one other NPC that buys rare things. The ATM card stuff needs to be reworked or removed as well. As a new player joining multiplayer servers, it's basically the strategy to rip your debit card immediately upon landing. That is automatically a red flag.

[Cezar]

I have been writing for a long time that the trading system is bad. First of all, you must find something, not buy it. Or recycle it into a resource.. The purchase should be an exception to the rule...

We have fame points that are now being wasted. I think they can also be part of the trading system, just not like before. There are many ways. For example, fame points are earned in quests... and spent on the opportunity to sell something... and when sold or bought, they disappear.
p.s. Rebirth in a square should not exist.

[Glubo]

Originally posted by Steffie_Stefan:

Originally posted by Glubo:

I agree to some degree. I think there should be settings allowing to pick which items can be sold from traders and for how much. I don't play the official servers but would definitely like to see many items unavailable or very expensive for sale.

Would be also nice to have some sort of default survival PVE settings for rental servers where prices are adjusted so you need to spend more effort surviving and finding the items.

Another thing is to bring the ability for admins to build community trades that will not degrade and place a NPC trader with some special items to sell/buy.

p.s.: I don't own my own server and not sure what's available now.

In your own server u can set almost everything; Uf u like it, u can set, that the traders buy or sell NOTHING from/to players, if u like it.
In singleplayer - mode it is set from the startup a little bit moderate, so that really new players can learn something how to play aso. If u want it "hard" - join a server where the server-setting are hard. thefore u have to the read how the server-owner has done the setiings or simply ask the server-owner before joining. Normally the game is not created for singleplayer to do all alone. See the singleplayer-mode only as an option to learn some basics, nothing more.

Thanks! I did not know that.

So, basically, you are saying that it's possible to adjust every item price independently? For example, if an admin would want to raise fuel prices twice and keep other item prices the same, the he would be able to raise it from mechanic and fuel stations and the rest will stay the same. Is that correct?

Sorry to ask, but I'm too greedy to pay for a server just to test that. I will absolutely explore settings myself when I'll be able to host a server myself.

Originally posted by theoriginalyankee:

Originally posted by Glubo:

1) Traders. They give you money and they take it back. That what gives money a value.

You're basically saying that "the fact that it happens is what causes it to happen". I hope you understand why I will refrain from further arguing that point. Besides, you said I was right, so not much to argue about :P

Originally posted by Glubo:

Yes. Remove traders and money will be useless. And it's not to argue, it's just to highlight that absurd fact. xD

[insettoinfetto]

Originally posted by Master Blaster:

In my opinion, traders shouldn't sell anything players can craft or find on their own, even if it is a very rare item. I play on vanilla official server and everyone I see who is not a freshspawn or new to the game have tactical armor, automatic weapon with AP rounds and red dots or scopes and military clothes. because even on vanilla settings it is too easy to bring some junk, sell it and buy best is slot stuff, all you need to do is grind some fame points. or have a separate character on another acc with high amount of points for sole purpose of staying in trade zone and buying stuff, which is pretty common.

I've been saying this for 2 year but player keep assaulting me for this feeling I got. So please open a thread with this idea and see how it goes!! :D

The idea of devs to implement a sort of bot shot inside SCUM was made, I think, to give a official response to private servers with botshops and to help newcomers.

But this is the main aspect that killed longevity of the game. After 2 week a newbie can be full geared (while a experienced player can do that in 4 hours) and then have nothing to do....

Originally posted by Master Blaster:

This will give a reason for players to actually explore and visit POIs and other places like sunken ships or caves as well as all sorts of civilian buildings. And go in the forests to hunt fur animals. And if done right, money will be harder to get and hoard. Since I started playing on new server recently, I did two runs to trader zone with some common junk and now I have enough money to not fear death at all and respawn in sector without a second thought. And this is vanilla official server. Imagine not to be scared to die in a SURVIVAL game.

Yes!!

Originally posted by Master Blaster:

Now what bothers me the most since the traders were introduced. Not even once I had a friendly encouter with a player. Everyone shoot on sight. I myself too feel like attacking everyone I meet. The reason is pretty clear - the stakes are too high now and no one want to risk loosing fame points and money. Even more so, it is benificial to kill everyone you see, because every extra fame point counts. In the older days of Scum almost every second encouter with a player I had were friendly. But this is a subjective matter and Scum is a cruel game so be it.
But what I find problematic is "everyone SHOOT on sight".

That is not a negative point for me, if you look at the lore. We are prisoners inside a deadly game that try to survive, KoS is part of this game.

The point is that we don't have any side effects on death.
It's not just FP (you can keep a squad member with high FP or an alt for that).
It is that dying (from player as NPC) we have no side effect. At least now suicide is no longer an option, and that's a very good change!

Originally posted by Master Blaster:

I don't even remember when was the last time I had a melee engagement or even a clunky shootout with impovised weapons. Even a pretty common scenario where both of you had handguns and bullets but no magazines and had to chamber load one bullet a time. But nowadays every hobo has at least a fully functioning handgun. Hell, even bullets are basically limitless. In the past I had to really count my ammo and think if I am willing to spend it or not. and this is a situation for somewhat casual hobo players. More hardcore players who spent some time grind fame points just buy the best stuff and don't even look in the direction of mid tier stuff. It doesn't feel like a survival pvp game. it feels like PUBG with extra steps.

Yes that is my point. I used to go around with shotguns or crossbows only as PvP was rare and puppets can be killed with anything.
But now everyone have assault rifle, best helmet and vest, tons of ammo, silencer, scope, etc.
Some times ago, talking about economy I said something like
"at this point give us a kit when we respawn with a full setup of ammo, clothing, vest, weapons"

Originally posted by Master Blaster:

Sorry, I wanted this post to be constructive but it became more like a rant towards the end. I just feel like it becomes harder and harder for me to love this game and all the problems that make me feel like it come down to traders system.

Really true. But it seems we are. a very small minority inside the community.
Even my squad mates in different server think the same....just to drop the game here and there cause "there's nothing more to find or to do"

[oynlengeymer]

fame to unlock items is silly. Quests to unlock items, either via tier unlock or individual items and its corresponding items. for example, bring me 40 boxes of 9mm to unlock tier 1 stuff.

Ofc this could only be done on a wipe (or should be)

[Sr. Morajsakom]

Quests that reward materials for traders to be able to build from and sell you a gun?(example for guns) Bulk of materials that may contain materials for guns. Like every mission would have a main goal and gives money or an item for that. As a secondary task, mission itself has special packages that you can find and pick up containing said materials (barrel, receiver, bolt, etc. for each gun in game), but the package does not say what it includes.

(which does make sense as i believe these prisoners are not trained to be gun experts or repairsman before released on the island, recognizing guts of a weapon in a random junk box)

Now you bring the bulk to the trader and he reveals to you what it has and they get stored with him. You can then come with more of them parts and when each needed part of a specific gun is there, the trader tells you about it. He will then construct the gun when you want it and give it as is, or fully repaired with extra cost to it.

Being unable to complete a mission at the site may not be the end of the world, at least you can snatch some of these cardboard boxes containing weapon parts that get revealed to you when near the location "My source told the weapon parts are located in one of the barns". Then head back to tell the bad news to the trader.

Retrieving these boxes could alone be a mission? Then you get half of what it contains.

I hope they have something exciting-a-like brewing already 😎

[Glubo]

Originally posted by oynlengeymer:

fame to unlock items is silly. Quests to unlock items, either via tier unlock or individual items and its corresponding items. for example, bring me 40 boxes of 9mm to unlock tier 1 stuff.

Ofc this could only be done on a wipe (or should be)

This is not a quest... Bring me 9mm so you can buy 9mm... Quests should allow to use skills and should be fun, rather than going into bunkers 20 times to get these boxes of 9mm. And if I already went 20 times down to bunkers why would I need to go to a trader?

Maybe collecting parts, etc as Sr. Morajsakom has suggested would be fine, but with the existence of bunkers it's kinda pointless. Amount of stuff you get from one run is huge. And you can even do it solo if you take it slowly.

Until the new AI enemies are introduced I doubt this game will have cool quests.

[Sr. Morajsakom]

Originally posted by Glubo:

Originally posted by oynlengeymer:

fame to unlock items is silly. Quests to unlock items, either via tier unlock or individual items and its corresponding items. for example, bring me 40 boxes of 9mm to unlock tier 1 stuff.

Ofc this could only be done on a wipe (or should be)

This is not a quest... Bring me 9mm so you can buy 9mm... Quests should allow to use skills and should be fun, rather than going into bunkers 20 times to get these boxes of 9mm. And if I already went 20 times down to bunkers why would I need to go to a trader?

Maybe collecting parts, etc as Sr. Morajsakom has suggested would be fine, but with the existence of bunkers it's kinda pointless. Amount of stuff you get from one run is huge. And you can even do it solo if you take it slowly.

Until the new AI enemies are introduced I doubt this game will have cool quests.

Perhaps those AI are going to fill up the old bunkers 😉 Just dont know.

[Samantha Raven]

I guess i'm a Minority, =P But I love the Trader's and the barting system, its my fav part of the game. I like looting and selling stuff and buying what I need, it's what made me buy this game because there like no other game's that are Survival Sandbox that have such a good NPC Vendor Trading System and Towns with NPCs and the Developer also want to add quest and story this is what made me buy this game.

I'm not intrested in a empty Survival Sandbox game, what makes this game standout is the PvE Traders and the promise of Quest along with the end game content plans developers promised I feel all these things will give this game more life.

I feel the Trader's give this game more purpose on top of the survival aspect and adds more PvE content and gives game more life and stuff to do.

Looting junk for the sake of looting is not fun to me, but able to sell it is fun to me and buy things I want instead, I love that about this game.

Removing the Traders or punishing you for using them or limiting what u can buy and sale, I would hate that enough that I would never come back to this game, like its what made me buy it.

I Also love the fame leveling to unlock more with the Traders I find it the funnest part about this game and makes it feel rewarding to have access to Traders Inventory.

It also makes the game less stressful and more fun to me.
Oh and I love the Bank system too.

Any ways thats my personal thoughts on it.