Bicycles are now useless deathtraps.

[Valkyrie]

I completely understand that the bicycle was 'broken' how you could drive forever after you were out of stamina. However, this hotfix is not right either, My character currently has 2.5 con, basic running 94% and medium endurance 66%, I know these are not the best stats.
However, I feel they should be more than enough to be able to outrun any zombie, even for a short time, and be able to make the mountain bike go faster than 30kph downhill.
IRL I am not in the best of shape, in fact my character probably has better stats rn than I do. however, that being said.. with 45kg in a backpack I can ride my 18 speed mountain bike on flat ground at 40kph comfortably for a half hour at least. If I had the same down hill grade as I was on in C1, I could last forever.
But you have it in the game now that even on flat ground, I can't get the bike over 18kph and I run out of stam and come to a stop before I can lose a zed on the bike..
I can get further on foot before I am out of stam than I can ride on a bike. That is sad and wrong.

I am not saying remove the mechanic all together.. just that stamina should last A LOT longer than it does while riding the bike and the speed of the bike needs to increase.

[SVSQUVSH]

45kph with a 45kg backpack is simply unrealistic and too OP. But I agree, only 18kph and the high stamina usage doesn't make much sense either. It should be like 22-24kph and less strain on stamina.

[Antary]

Escrito originalmente por SVSQUVSH:

45kph with a 45kg backpack is simply unrealistic and too OP. But I agree, only 18kph and the high stamina usage doesn't make much sense either. It should be like 22-24kph and less strain on stamina.

Strictly speaking, 45kg backpack would get you more inertia for downhill though, would be hilarious if they made breaking harder in relation to total weight.

Escrito originalmente por Sichvot:

Projection much?

Give me a down hill and depending on the gradiant I have got to 147kph irl.. but the equiv to the hill in the game I'm referencing I could get to 50kph without really trying.
Just because you can't do something, doen;t mean other can't. and they don;t need to be professionals either.

Escrito originalmente por Jolie Rouge:

Bicycle world speed record 133.75 kph. Average speed Tour De France 41.

Oops, what do we have here, a new world record on steam forum?
Also, I LOVE how someone provides professional stats in the context of some random steam forum guy to make a point. The best part is that a professional racer's (wearing thin cycling clothes, no backpacks of course, special clipping footwear, with training and experience) average speed is about the same as our casual hero with a 45kg backpack. All of that without breaking a sweat.

Returning to a game stuff, bicycles were fine, but if devs really want to push the realistic point, they were too fast too non-demanding on stamina. Now you have to actually watch your stamina or you won't be able to ride it fast when you need it.

Escrito originalmente por wilhelm_gamer:

The point here I think is that average people (average speed ~28kph on level ground) are able to pedal 200km in ~5-6 hours without stopping and panting. (far faster for a pro). This includes uphill and downhill stages.

As for encumbrance, last time I was in Beijing, I was in traffic and was passed by an old man (looked 80) on a bike with a full sized refrigerator strapped to his back and he was just pedaling along at a decent clip, weaving among the cars stuck at lights. He went several miles before I lost sight of him ahead of us and I didn't see him stopping and wheezing either.

The Devs need to (please) think about what is realistic for someone with zero endurance skill and a con of 1 vs someone with a con of 5 and beyond advanced endurance. Take some real world examples of walking with a load (army ruck march is a good example) over long distances, marathon running, cycling endurance events that go 100's of km in a go and assume that this is 'top end stat' behavior. Then compare that to a couch potato doing any of these and that's your baseline for the bottom. As it stands for hiking (with or without a load), jogging, running and bicycling it feels like there is too small a gap between no skill/low stat and the highest of both. Widen the gap and make it more appealing to have the right skills and train the right stats. (add a bike skill also to compliment the running skill behavior for speed and stamina use).

Now these are all good points. I suspect they are planning to add more stat dependencies already (maybe not)

[Jolie Rouge]

Escrito originalmente por Antary:

Escrito originalmente por SVSQUVSH:

45kph with a 45kg backpack is simply unrealistic and too OP. But I agree, only 18kph and the high stamina usage doesn't make much sense either. It should be like 22-24kph and less strain on stamina.

Strictly speaking, 45kg backpack would get you more inertia for downhill though, would be hilarious if they made breaking harder in relation to total weight.

Escrito originalmente por Sichvot:

Projection much?

Give me a down hill and depending on the gradiant I have got to 147kph irl.. but the equiv to the hill in the game I'm referencing I could get to 50kph without really trying.
Just because you can't do something, doen;t mean other can't. and they don;t need to be professionals either.

Escrito originalmente por Jolie Rouge:

Bicycle world speed record 133.75 kph. Average speed Tour De France 41.

Oops, what do we have here, a new world record on steam forum?
Also, I LOVE how someone provides professional stats in the context of some random steam forum guy to make a point. The best part is that a professional racer's (wearing thin cycling clothes, no backpacks of course, special clipping footwear, with training and experience) average speed is about the same as our casual hero with a 45kg backpack. All of that without breaking a sweat.

Returning to a game stuff, bicycles were fine, but if devs really want to push the realistic point, they were too fast too non-demanding on stamina. Now you have to actually watch your stamina or you won't be able to ride it fast when you need it.

Escrito originalmente por wilhelm_gamer:

The point here I think is that average people (average speed ~28kph on level ground) are able to pedal 200km in ~5-6 hours without stopping and panting. (far faster for a pro). This includes uphill and downhill stages.

As for encumbrance, last time I was in Beijing, I was in traffic and was passed by an old man (looked 80) on a bike with a full sized refrigerator strapped to his back and he was just pedaling along at a decent clip, weaving among the cars stuck at lights. He went several miles before I lost sight of him ahead of us and I didn't see him stopping and wheezing either.

The Devs need to (please) think about what is realistic for someone with zero endurance skill and a con of 1 vs someone with a con of 5 and beyond advanced endurance. Take some real world examples of walking with a load (army ruck march is a good example) over long distances, marathon running, cycling endurance events that go 100's of km in a go and assume that this is 'top end stat' behavior. Then compare that to a couch potato doing any of these and that's your baseline for the bottom. As it stands for hiking (with or without a load), jogging, running and bicycling it feels like there is too small a gap between no skill/low stat and the highest of both. Widen the gap and make it more appealing to have the right skills and train the right stats. (add a bike skill also to compliment the running skill behavior for speed and stamina use).

Now these are all good points. I suspect they are planning to add more stat dependencies already (maybe not)

Owww, you want better? Okay, Swiss Velo Brigade, average speed 60 kph. And no thin cycling clothes.

[Antary]

Escrito originalmente por Jolie Rouge:

Owww, you want better? Okay, Swiss Velo Brigade, average speed 60 kph. And no thin cycling clothes.

I want nothing lol, I was talking about unreasonable comparison mostly.
Also I have no idea where you are taking these numbers from, but avg. 60 kph is literally impossible on non-motorized bike, unless your average is heavily biased by terrain (baby smooth road of a slight incline) or time (10 mins).
If you played the game, you should have noticed that the road is crap most of the time (or none at all). Not only that, but it's also a mountain bike, not a road-racer.

[oynlengeymer]

Escrito originalmente por Sichvot:

Escrito originalmente por Antary:

IRL I highly doubt you are able to push 40kph on bike even naked, yet with 45kg on your back LOL
Unless it's a downhill free fall :winter2019joyfultearsgingerbread:

Projection much?

Give me a down hill and depending on the gradiant I have got to 147kph irl.. but the equiv to the hill in the game I'm referencing I could get to 50kph without really trying.
Just because you can't do something, doen;t mean other can't. and they don;t need to be professionals either.

Escrito originalmente por Stubs:

I felt it was broken when I first logged in after patch, then I discovered the mouse wheel matters now.

And yeah, you should work on those stats.

eya, But I still have the issue with stam and speed running out too fast with my backpack full of stuff... and you 100% correct about working on my stats ;)

Escrito originalmente por PabloSpacebar:

Whole my life i could pedal 20km without breaking a sweat. Anyone who is not extremely obese can do it.
I never ever saw or heard that someone stoped and rested from recreational cycling. Big/long incline, of course. But not flat-ish terrain. It’s silly.

This is basically my point.. but forget flat.. I have to stop going DOWNHILL FFS,

147 km, do you live in the mountains? maybe being a heavy man and adding weight in backpack helps with gravity.

[Jolie Rouge]

Escrito originalmente por Antary:

Escrito originalmente por Jolie Rouge:

Owww, you want better? Okay, Swiss Velo Brigade, average speed 60 kph. And no thin cycling clothes.

I want nothing lol, I was talking about unreasonable comparison mostly.
Also I have no idea where you are taking these numbers from, but avg. 60 kph is literally impossible on non-motorized bike, unless your average is heavily biased by terrain (baby smooth road of a slight incline) or time (10 mins).
If you played the game, you should have noticed that the road is crap most of the time (or none at all). Not only that, but it's also a mountain bike, not a road-racer.

It's not impossible and directly taken from a Swiss video about the Velo Brigade. Perhaps you should gather some information about it.

[PabloSpacebar]

Guys we re talking about crapy mb and a citybike with a bent wheel which is doing eights, maybe even sixteens… 😁

[Dutrah]

Does the bike take strenght in count when used? Like, does it behave the same for weak or strong characters? If so wouldn't strong characters have a better performance crossing the terrain and using their stamina? I swear my character goes farther sprinting with full gear than biking with this update.

[Mars Mullo]

Bicycles, wheelbarrows and moto x bikes are all poor.
Bicycles because of what you said.
Wheelbarrows suck stamina severley bad and way noisier than they should be.
moto x bikes are too delicate.

Good post

[wilhelm_gamer]

I did some testing with the mountain bike with essentially no gear, shorts and a t-shirt and you can ride for a reasonable time/distance. Near full carry capacity this starts to break down quickly and once you're over carry capacity good luck going a few hundred meters.

The mountain bike weighs 100kg, worst case this should be closer to 15kg with 10kg being more reasonable. This may have an effect on how much you have to push/pedal?

The mechanical properties of bikes makes them much more energy efficient, A bike uses ~half the energy per km for ~4x the speed. I believe that you could extract from this some carry capacity scaling when riding, as you should be able to carry more for the same energy spent on a bike vs walking

[xKiCkx]

Escrito originalmente por Stubs:

Escrito originalmente por xKiCkx:

The mouse wheel was something that you could use before as well on the bicycles, you can adjust the speed that you want to go at. :)

Umm, no. Pre-patch there was definitely no affect of the mouse wheel on bike speed, I tried, I was complaining that there were no gears or more than one speed.

I might be crazy then, I could swear it worked before as well.

[wilhelm_gamer]

Yeah, I never saw the mouse wheel affect bikes prior to the patch, all good though :)

I think the thing that jumps out at me that might need a peek though is the bikes being 100kg?

[Valkyrie]

Escrito originalmente por oynlengeymer:

147 km, do you live in the mountains?

At the time I did that. Yes, I was on a steep mountain road in British Columbia.

Escrito originalmente por oynlengeymer:

maybe being a heavy man

Hmm, seems you got both things incorrect here. I am neither heavy, nor a man.
You are aware you don;t need to be heavy to not be fit, right? Nor do you have to be a man to ride a bicycle or do anything minorly sportsy.
And if you do.. I hope you are aware, women play video games as well.

Escrito originalmente por Antary:

Oops, what do we have here, a new world record on steam forum?

Record for a bicycle downhill is 167.6kph.. I was never claiming to beat any records.

[Shifterplay]

I don't mind current stamina usage, but It would feel better if the lowest gear would have 0 stamina cost but also 0 stamina gain and couldn't go above 12 - 15 km/h.

[Valkyrie]

Escrito originalmente por Shifterplay:

I don't mind current stamina usage, but It would feel better if the lowest gear would have 0 stamina cost but also 0 stamina gain and couldn't go above 12 - 15 km/h.

You know, that isn't a terrible idea either.. Except maybe a when you are climbing a very steep hill.. Even on an easy gear it can be more than challenging to pedal IRL, so I can see getting some stamina usage and con gain for that.

My main gripe is that stamina is getting used way too fast on flat ground and especially when i'm going with a light downhill with no load in the game..
IMO: I should be able to clear the B1/2 runway length without having to take a break.. But I can;t even make that without taking a break/coasting.