Dear developers, about arrow properties?

[Pooroldman]

I posted earlier and wanted to say that wooden arrows shot at armor or bulletproof vests, including helmets, should not cause any damage, which is unrealistic! This includes hitting the ground and walls - even if it's soil, it can't be used again!

Carbon fiber and metal arrows face a similar issue when shot at sturdy objects. In practical tests, they should behave as follows: they get damaged when hitting solid walls or armor, but mostly pass through animals or flesh. And each time, they lose a significant amount of durability, not just 100%. Of course, as the durability of the arrow decreases, its flight becomes erratic and less accurate, right?

The same problem occurs with iron sheet-made scrap swords; they can easily cut through level three armor!

Maybe this is more friendly to beginners? But 24 wooden arrows can massacre a village, requiring only a few bushes, thus diminishing the significance of real firearms and even armor-piercing bullets!

In my server, there are always wanderers who can slaughter with scrap swords and wooden sticks. This doesn't necessarily mean they are highly skilled, but rather that there is a serious issue with ammunition resources! Easily obtained wooden arrows, in PVE and even some PVP scenarios, are almost as effective as bullets in terms of damage, and they can be recycled after killing a group of zombies!

[Jakob]

If you did that, you would nerf one of the most enjoyable things in SCUM down to the ground. You might haven't think that one through. Like e.g. good luck inside an abandoned bunker with your suggested changes. Balance should be given more weight than full realism.

[Pooroldman]

Originally posted by Jakob:

If you did that, you would nerf one of the most enjoyable things in SCUM down to the ground. You might haven't think that one through. Like e.g. good luck inside an abandoned bunker with your suggested changes. Balance should be given more weight than full realism.

My thinking is this: you can craft, and encourage crafting, making them very cost-effective, but it shouldn't be so simple that it achieves the goal: for example, it should require a stick + scrap iron (for the arrowhead) + feathers for stabilization. The crafted arrows, whether in terms of penetration or durability, should be inferior to the finished carbon fiber and metal arrows. It shouldn't be that a simple stick can easily be turned into something so powerful and effective. The difficulty of crafting and the effectiveness of the attack should be proportional.

[Jolie Rouge]

Originally posted by hankaicn3:

Originally posted by Jakob:

If you did that, you would nerf one of the most enjoyable things in SCUM down to the ground. You might haven't think that one through. Like e.g. good luck inside an abandoned bunker with your suggested changes. Balance should be given more weight than full realism.

My thinking is this: you can craft, and encourage crafting, making them very cost-effective, but it shouldn't be so simple that it achieves the goal: for example, it should require a stick + scrap iron (for the arrowhead) + feathers for stabilization. The crafted arrows, whether in terms of penetration or durability, should be inferior to the finished carbon fiber and metal arrows. It shouldn't be that a simple stick can easily be turned into something so powerful and effective. The difficulty of crafting and the effectiveness of the attack should be proportional.

Arrows require exactly that: metal, a wooden stick and feathers. Arrows were crafted by fletchers and they could make very powerful arrows; also there are different arrowheads.
Ever heard of the bodkin arrowhead? It was designed to penetrate armor, we are talking steel plates here.
And in combination with a good bow your simple stick is indeed something very effective.

[Pooroldman]

Originally posted by Jolie Rouge:

Originally posted by hankaicn3:

My thinking is this: you can craft, and encourage crafting, making them very cost-effective, but it shouldn't be so simple that it achieves the goal: for example, it should require a stick + scrap iron (for the arrowhead) + feathers for stabilization. The crafted arrows, whether in terms of penetration or durability, should be inferior to the finished carbon fiber and metal arrows. It shouldn't be that a simple stick can easily be turned into something so powerful and effective. The difficulty of crafting and the effectiveness of the attack should be proportional.

Arrows require exactly that: metal, a wooden stick and feathers. Arrows were crafted by fletchers and they could make very powerful arrows; also there are different arrowheads.
Ever heard of the bodkin arrowhead? It was designed to penetrate armor, we are talking steel plates here.
And in combination with a good bow your simple stick is indeed something very effective.

Perhaps you also need sufficient crafting skills, strength, and archery skills to complete the making of advanced bows and arrows. Of course, this is feasible, rather than just taking a long stick and a book cover, and then using a small stick as a bullet to be invincible.

[CrankyOldMan]

In medieval times fletchers crafted arrows that penetrated the metal armor of the knights and other warriors.
Not the same as today's armor but still----the game needs some fun.

If you make this game to difficult people will buy it and then trash it in the reviews and that will effect sales.

If we had a better targeting system where we could face shoot better, where we could leg shoot better then yes wooden arrrows should be an issue later on against armored.

Right now you can drop a skinny with 1 arrow and the others with 2 the armored takes 4-5 so the mechanic is in the game just very basic in nature....

[Andi]

Once the trashy spawn system is fixed, I'd be totally up for some more realistic use of arrows but not at the moment or if stays as it is now currently.
Pointy sticks could be only penetrating soft (non armored) targets and also only at a short range. Advanced stick arrows with fletches could be useful at higher distances but still won't penetrate armor and work up from that in a more realistic way.
I'm big into archery irl and it ALWAYS bothered me that the arrows lie angled on the rest! That detail drives me nuts ngl. ;b
That would be my favorite fix for the bows, arrow balancing afterwards!

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally posted by Andi:

Once the trashy spawn system is fixed, I'd be totally up for some more realistic use of arrows but not at the moment or if stays as it is now currently.
Pointy sticks could be only penetrating soft (non armored) targets and also only at a short range. Advanced stick arrows with fletches could be useful at higher distances but still won't penetrate armor and work up from that in a more realistic way.
I'm big into archery irl and it ALWAYS bothered me that the arrows lie angled on the rest! That detail drives me nuts ngl. ;b
That would be my favorite fix for the bows, arrow balancing afterwards!

Yes once we can select WHICH ARROW STACK to use then this maybe could be implemented.
That would be a good reason to actually make the effort to craft metal tip arrows!

They could even increase the chance of a penetration mechanic from a higher archery skill and/or higher bow the higher the bow# or compound bow the greater the chance...

[Andi]

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

Originally posted by Andi:

Once the trashy spawn system is fixed, I'd be totally up for some more realistic use of arrows but not at the moment or if stays as it is now currently.
Pointy sticks could be only penetrating soft (non armored) targets and also only at a short range. Advanced stick arrows with fletches could be useful at higher distances but still won't penetrate armor and work up from that in a more realistic way.
I'm big into archery irl and it ALWAYS bothered me that the arrows lie angled on the rest! That detail drives me nuts ngl. ;b
That would be my favorite fix for the bows, arrow balancing afterwards!

Yes once we can select WHICH ARROW STACK to use then this maybe could be implemented.
That would be a good reason to actually make the effort to craft metal tip arrows!

Right? When I started with scum I instinctively made fletched arrows due to irl experience until I figured it's completely unnecessary lol.
Proper selection is another essential aspect for sure! Don't know how it's not already in the game.
Like a simple solution like in 7 Days. Hold R - select. Perfect.

[Strayed]

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

In medieval times fletchers crafted arrows that penetrated the metal armor of the knights and other warriors.
Not the same as today's armor but still----the game needs some fun.

Additionally the English longbow used at that time in a standing army was between 100 and 160 pounds (at least records and recovered objects from the Mary Rose! There are some anecdotal historical records of 'heavy longbow' brigades of archers using up to 200 pounds! The arrows didn't specifically penetrate the plate armour, it was more the gaps in the armour -slipping through the chainmail and so forth

Archers were used as suppression and point and area targeting against advancing enemies.. so it was literally volume of fire

My favourite medieval bowyer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxdTkddHaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-Ev5msyzo

@Devs -a side note, which still irks me, crossbow bolts were fletched with wood -they weren't fletched with feathers. can we please fix this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXdw22pPzA

[Pooroldman]

Originally posted by Strayed:

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

In medieval times fletchers crafted arrows that penetrated the metal armor of the knights and other warriors.
Not the same as today's armor but still----the game needs some fun.

Additionally the English longbow used at that time in a standing army was between 100 and 160 pounds (at least records and recovered objects from the Mary Rose! There are some anecdotal historical records of 'heavy longbow' brigades of archers using up to 200 pounds! The arrows didn't specifically penetrate the plate armour, it was more the gaps in the armour -slipping through the chainmail and so forth

Archers were used as suppression and point and area targeting against advancing enemies.. so it was literally volume of fire

My favourite medieval bowyer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxdTkddHaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-Ev5msyzo

@Devs -a side note, which still irks me, crossbow bolts were fletched with wood -they weren't fletched with feathers. can we please fix this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXdw22pPzA

So, do you also think that all this can be achieved with just one bush and one stone knife?

[Des]

Hmm, I'm no seasoned archer, My grandpa use to take me shooting when I was younger. Nothing amazing mind you. But I did learn a bit and I'd be happy if they added duct tape as an option besides feathers for the arrows. lol I have low standards here.

[Jolie Rouge]

Originally posted by hankaicn3:

Originally posted by Strayed:

Additionally the English longbow used at that time in a standing army was between 100 and 160 pounds (at least records and recovered objects from the Mary Rose! There are some anecdotal historical records of 'heavy longbow' brigades of archers using up to 200 pounds! The arrows didn't specifically penetrate the plate armour, it was more the gaps in the armour -slipping through the chainmail and so forth

Archers were used as suppression and point and area targeting against advancing enemies.. so it was literally volume of fire

My favourite medieval bowyer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxdTkddHaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-Ev5msyzo

@Devs -a side note, which still irks me, crossbow bolts were fletched with wood -they weren't fletched with feathers. can we please fix this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXdw22pPzA

So, do you also think that all this can be achieved with just one bush and one stone knife?

For simplicity in a games' sake, yes. How complicated do you want to make it before players get annoyed by all the details they have to think about?
Take ammo crafting; scrap metal, gun powder, lead, a toolbox and a workbench is all you need. That's enough for a game.

Bows work, they're fun to use. Sure, you could say, there should be more to it, but what do you want to add?
All sorts of bows you have in games like Skyrim? More kinds of arrows? More arrowheads? And what is a advanced bow?

Originally posted by hankaicn3:

Originally posted by Jolie Rouge:

Arrows require exactly that: metal, a wooden stick and feathers. Arrows were crafted by fletchers and they could make very powerful arrows; also there are different arrowheads.
Ever heard of the bodkin arrowhead? It was designed to penetrate armor, we are talking steel plates here.
And in combination with a good bow your simple stick is indeed something very effective.

Perhaps you also need sufficient crafting skills, strength, and archery skills to complete the making of advanced bows and arrows. Of course, this is feasible, rather than just taking a long stick and a book cover, and then using a small stick as a bullet to be invincible.

[Pooroldman]

Firstly, SCUM is a game with realistic traits. Although there is a part of fantasy, whether it's the simulation of the body, the actions, or more game content, there is a desire for more realistic feedback. So please don't compare it with other games.

Secondly, I don't think there's a problem with making arrows from sticks, or that it's not complex enough. What I want to express is: the arrows made from small sticks are too powerful! They are unaffected by anything, can penetrate armor, can headshot with one arrow, are not affected by wind, have relatively perfect attack power, and can be recycled. If not defined as "arrows", they are almost perfect weapons. And such ammunition, I can make one in one second, that's the key issue! If it can be perfect, then please make its production complex. If it can be simple, then please make it more realistic.

[Cezar]

I'll add about the stone axes... They are too strong. I would like to see how a person really quickly cuts down trees with it... :)
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[B0.oB Cicherillo]

Did you ever got hit by an arrow while wearing a west. I mean ofc the arrow does not penetrate but in short distance it defenitly hurts. At least i wouldnt let someone shot me with a bow even if i am wearing a west. Would you? Be honest xD