Asian Encroachment on American servers

[Siamese]

I understand this topic will probably become controversial for reasons of modern correctness culture...its ok and I don't care. So save your comments about racism, you won't persuade me.

If what I'm saying here offends anyone I would encourage you to ignore the labels used and simply look at the stated facts in the context of enjoying the game.

That said....

The west coast servers have for all intent and purposes been completely hijacked by asian players. The former ping lock level has become obsolete because of improved server performance. This has resulted in a flood of players from asia and as such a flood of cheating. To be 100% clear here....I am not saying ALL asian players cheat....But the frequency of cheating increases in direct relation to the asian population on any given server. That relationship is undeniable. The result of this is the asian players who cheat spend all their time working to drive local players off the server...and they do. What this now means is if I as a west coast player want to play the game without this issue i need to play on a central or east coast server to get away from them. This now means that i have to deal with higher ping rates and more severe de-sync which pretty much makes me not want to play at all. This is a very serious issue that must be addressed, If this means lowering the ping lock or doing some kind of region lock then that MUST happen. Its absolutely unacceptable that players cannot play on their most local servers because they are effectively harassed to the degree that its untenable to remain on the server. Asian players have Asian servers to play on so no one loses here but the cheaters.

In addition to the cheating there is a continuous spam in global of foreign language because the asian players cannot use discord. This is disruptive and annoying not to mention totally immersion breaking.

Before anyone says it....PRIVATE SERVERS ARE NOT THE ANSWER.

On a side note I would like to thank and commend the recent efforts of discord mods and admins who have been very responsive and taken quick action on cheater reports. This is a dramatic improvement over the past and its much appreciated. The reason for this post is because it seems clear that in spite of these greater efforts the cheating is still a daily event which clearly indicates a stronger measure is needed. Its great to see a more personal touch on this management of the cheating reports but its all being wasted right now and will continue to be until the spigot is turned off.

[Deathwhisper]

Generally Applicable:

This topic is viewed critically due to its fragile nature. If you contribute, please remain neutral and try to articulate what you want to contribute as factually and respectfully as possible.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

I wonder about the argument that cheeters and Asians are equated.

The cheat problem is a question of the personality of those who use cheats. It is a great mistake to exclude the entire race to which the cheat user belongs.

From the point of view of the aliens, the people of earth are to be excluded because they use cheats.

The OP and its supporters are already logically bankrupt.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

To OP

The first thing we should do to bad apples is warn them.

Bad apples are more stupid than we think. Strangely enough, some people do not take offense and even think they are right.

The main reason is that they are not very smart and make a lot of assumptions. Only such people do not read the text stating the rules. They also lack the ability to read other people's feelings, which causes trouble for others. Their need for approval is strong and they try to stand out.

Because they are stupid, they do not realize that they are bothering others.

If such a person is suddenly banned, they do not understand why they were banned.

So, first of all, you need to warn them. You need to tell them that they are bothering others.

If we teach them common sense, some will comply.

ok so much wrong here.
They are warned in the terms of use...if they can't read that's their problem. The modern world holds translators and they are easy to use and effective...so no excuse to not know the rules...period.

Second its not stupidity at play here...its cheating. Cheating isn't a product of lack of intelligence but rather a lack of honor. Its the most basic of rules, do unto others as you'd have done to you. So second excuse eliminated.

If they don't understand what it means to receive a ban then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Warnings a wasted effort. You don't warn someone when they kill someone else...they should know better. It really is just that simple.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

I wonder about the argument that cheeters and Asians are equated.

The cheat problem is a question of the personality of those who use cheats. It is a great mistake to exclude the entire race to which the cheat user belongs.

From the point of view of the aliens, the people of earth are to be excluded because they use cheats.

The OP and its supporters are already logically bankrupt.

You don't need to wonder about it friend just go play on Official West 1 and see the reality for yourself. There's really no point trying to discredit the argument I'm making unless you are willing to actually participate in the situation and see it for yourself. Just go read the cheat reports in discord. There are literally 1-6 per day just for that server.

Just go ...stop posting here and play on west 1 for a week then come back and tell me I'm wrong.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by Des:

Here we go with the racist remarks now. Good lord what is it with people these days.

Cause and effect are a thing it's not an assumption. The zergs show up, funky hackey stuff starts happeneing on servers that never had an issue, {Cause= Zerg Effect=Funky hacky stuff}

Stop trying to make everything about raceism, fasism or whateverism. FFS Op was making a point and asking a simple question of should the servers be region locked, The answer is yes. Regardless of if you agree with that or not.

I'll ask again, Please don't bring stupid politics or social ecos into the dialog. No one cares. It's titled as a point of dialog for stopping zergs not a pissing contest of china numba wan.

If the Chinese language is bothering you, politely ask them to stop speaking in global mode.

The customs of other countries are often offensive.

For example, the Japanese eat their ramen noisily. In other countries, this is an unbecoming way to eat.

I don't think they have any bad intentions.

They will understand if you explain it to them politely.

They won't stop because they can't.
They aren't allowed to use things like discord in china. So they're only means of communicating out of VOIP range is global chat. Which is all the more reason for them to play on a chinese server. I'll add to that....when translated much of what is said is derogatory comments about "foreigners" i.e. americans while they play on an american server. They even on some occasions drop the N word here and there in an effort to get a rise out of us.

You really need to take off the rose colored glasses and go experience this first hand before you jump out in front to defend them.

[marktkm]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

To OP

The first thing we should do to bad apples is warn them.

Bad apples are more stupid than we think. Strangely enough, some people do not take offense and even think they are right.

The main reason is that they are not very smart and make a lot of assumptions. Only such people do not read the text stating the rules. They also lack the ability to read other people's feelings, which causes trouble for others. Their need for approval is strong and they try to stand out.

Because they are stupid, they do not realize that they are bothering others.

If such a person is suddenly banned, they do not understand why they were banned.

So, first of all, you need to warn them. You need to tell them that they are bothering others.

If we teach them common sense, some will comply.

The people cheating, regardless of who or where, know 'exactly' what they are doing and that it's wrong. Warning them will only delay the issue. They didn't stumble upon the cheats by accident. They aren't naive or just unaware that they're causing issues for others. They're deliberately and knowingly being jerks. They understand 'exactly' why they are being banned.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of the OP-

When the devs first put the ping limit in place the amount of cheating and complaints of such dropped off. Most cheaters try not to do it in their own back yard. Why it's not working as well anymore is anyone's guess. The ping limit was essentially a soft region lock. Along with that they also have open servers without the limits. A region lock could be done the same way if the devs so chose. It wouldn't be any more 'racist' of 'fascist' than a fence around a property, a lock on your front door, or for that matter, a password enabled server. It would affect 'everyone', keeping them in their region, not just a particular racial group. A whitelist could be used to allow for exceptions if you have a server and know someone in another region.

I'd rather see it done by better training of the EAC detections and some custom coding to close off exploitable code holes, and I think that's what will probably happen once the devs have more time to concentrate on it.

[thomas_1611]

The simple fact is that different cultures regard the practice of cheating differently. Values clash. One group sees it as reprehensible, while the other often sees it as another tool at one's disposal. The problem lies in the fact that in the case of multiplayer games, the latter group represents a population base which is orders of magnitude greater than the former. It is a simple numbers game to show that the cheating group, if allowed, will run rough-shod over the non-cheating.

Funny enough, we had a player banned from the server just this morning. He was writing Chinese in global chat, and was instructed to use english only. After that someone said, "and no cheating!"... You could call this a stereotype or "profiling"... but in the end he was banned several hours later for duping ammunition.

Chinese are NOT the only ones cheating, that's for sure. But they do represent a HUGE playerbase whose values can be generalized as being more tolerant of cheating overall. Make of this what you will. I say that regardless of where the cheaters are playing from, the only real solution is to have super-active admins who are on top of it 24/7.

This is why I ONLY play on private servers with VERY active admins.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by Siamese:

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

If the Chinese language is bothering you, politely ask them to stop speaking in global mode.

The customs of other countries are often offensive.

For example, the Japanese eat their ramen noisily. In other countries, this is an unbecoming way to eat.

I don't think they have any bad intentions.

They will understand if you explain it to them politely.

They won't stop because they can't.
They aren't allowed to use things like discord in china. So they're only means of communicating out of VOIP range is global chat. Which is all the more reason for them to play on a chinese server. I'll add to that....when translated much of what is said is derogatory comments about "foreigners" i.e. americans while they play on an american server. They even on some occasions drop the N word here and there in an effort to get a rise out of us.

You really need to take off the rose colored glasses and go experience this first hand before you jump out in front to defend them.

I sympathize with the OP having a bad feeling about the cheaters and their mannerisms.

I too was a cheat victim on official Asian server #1.
But I had no problems on Asia Official Server #4.

They are not all the same, they are independent individuals. This thread lacks respect for individuals.

I repeat, it is the cheat users themselves, not the race.

Your logic is too far fetched.

One way to solve the OP's problem is to have Gamepires ban the abusive players and cheat users on your server.

Another is to have Gamepires file a lawsuit against the cheat developers.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by Siamese:

They won't stop because they can't.
They aren't allowed to use things like discord in china. So they're only means of communicating out of VOIP range is global chat. Which is all the more reason for them to play on a chinese server. I'll add to that....when translated much of what is said is derogatory comments about "foreigners" i.e. americans while they play on an american server. They even on some occasions drop the N word here and there in an effort to get a rise out of us.

You really need to take off the rose colored glasses and go experience this first hand before you jump out in front to defend them.

I sympathize with the OP having a bad feeling about the cheaters and their mannerisms.

I too was a cheat victim on official Asian server #1.
But I had no problems on Asia Official Server #4.

They are not all the same, they are independent individuals. This thread lacks respect for individuals.

I repeat, it is the cheat users themselves, not the race.

Your logic is too far fetched.

One way to solve the OP's problem is to have Gamepires ban the abusive players and cheat users on your server.

Another is to have Gamepires file a lawsuit against the cheat developers.

It just doesn't matter though
What you are saying holds no point to it.
If its one person over and over or 100% of the people isn't important.
What's important is the impact had on the game play for people in their local servers.
If i have to play on a different server because an individual or several individuals of a given region make it unplayable by cheating it really doesn't matter what the rest of that group does or doesn't do....not even a little bit. What matters is that me and many others are now having to play on a server that preforms less well and also start over from scratch.

That is a problem that must be solved and the most direct and simple way is simply to confine those people (cheaters) to their local servers.

If simply banning them worked then i wouldn't be here posting. If you had read any of what I've typed here you'd know that I've had several banned over the course of the past weeks and they just come right back and do it all over again. So clearly that tactic holds no value.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

Originally posted by thomas_1611:

The simple fact is that different cultures regard the practice of cheating differently. Values clash. One group sees it as reprehensible, while the other often sees it as another tool at one's disposal. The problem lies in the fact that in the case of multiplayer games, the latter group represents a population base which is orders of magnitude greater than the former. It is a simple numbers game to show that the cheating group, if allowed, will run rough-shod over the non-cheating.

Funny enough, we had a player banned from the server just this morning. He was writing Chinese in global chat, and was instructed to use english only. After that someone said, "and no cheating!"... You could call this a stereotype or "profiling"... but in the end he was banned several hours later for duping ammunition.

Chinese are NOT the only ones cheating, that's for sure. But they do represent a HUGE playerbase whose values can be generalized as being more tolerant of cheating overall. Make of this what you will. I say that regardless of where the cheaters are playing from, the only real solution is to have super-active admins who are on top of it 24/7.

This is why I ONLY play on private servers with VERY active admins.

Your opinion is logical and excellent.
You are spot on with the issue.

The population is so large that we are often overwhelmed by them. Yet, in percentage terms, they are often no different than us.

Your opinion is spot on,
Regarding the use of cheats, I think there are cultural differences,
but we must not forget that there are decent players as well.

[CrankyOldMan]

I in my life time have been to many countries through work.
I have seen things acceptable in other countries work places that in the US they would go to court and go to jail most likely!
Different countries people have different thoughts on many things and one of them is cheating in games.
________
I have seen Asian players complaining about their own country cheaters in scum. Many don't want or like the cheating themselves.
_____
>>>>The region lock won't work they have ways around it already.<<<<
____
Currently they get caught, they get banned, they get another steam account and game copy.
All they loose is some pocket change and a little time reinstalling the new copy!
>>>>Clearly EAC is dropping the ball and the devs need to step up and hammer the cheating big time...NOW!
_____
___
One needs to take into consideration that just China alone has a population that is 4.5 times larger than the US-so for every cheater that might be from the US there in theory could be 4-5 from china just based on population.
____
On the other hand I will admit that the 4 cheaters we have had so far all have been from another country....{{their ip placed them all from the same country!}}

[Siamese]

Originally posted by CrankyOldMan:

I in my life time have been to many countries through work.
I have seen things acceptable in other countries work places that in the US they would go to court and go to jail most likely!
Different countries people have different thoughts on many things and one of them is cheating in games.
________
I have seen Asian players complaining about their own country cheaters in scum. Many don't want or like the cheating themselves.
_____
>>>>The region lock won't work they have ways around it already.<<<<
____
Currently they get caught, they get banned, they get another steam account and game copy.
All they loose is some pocket change and a little time reinstalling the new copy!
>>>>Clearly EAC is dropping the ball and the devs need to step up and hammer the cheating big time...NOW!
_____
___
One needs to take into consideration that just China alone has a population that is 4.5 times larger than the US-so for every cheater that might be from the US there in theory could be 4-5 from china just based on population.
____
On the other hand I will admit that the 4 cheaters we have had so far all have been from another country....{{their ip placed them all from the same country!}}

To be clear no one is talking about a region lock.

[Siamese]

Originally posted by eighthwonderbeeton8:

Originally posted by thomas_1611:

The simple fact is that different cultures regard the practice of cheating differently. Values clash. One group sees it as reprehensible, while the other often sees it as another tool at one's disposal. The problem lies in the fact that in the case of multiplayer games, the latter group represents a population base which is orders of magnitude greater than the former. It is a simple numbers game to show that the cheating group, if allowed, will run rough-shod over the non-cheating.

Funny enough, we had a player banned from the server just this morning. He was writing Chinese in global chat, and was instructed to use english only. After that someone said, "and no cheating!"... You could call this a stereotype or "profiling"... but in the end he was banned several hours later for duping ammunition.

Chinese are NOT the only ones cheating, that's for sure. But they do represent a HUGE playerbase whose values can be generalized as being more tolerant of cheating overall. Make of this what you will. I say that regardless of where the cheaters are playing from, the only real solution is to have super-active admins who are on top of it 24/7.

This is why I ONLY play on private servers with VERY active admins.

Your opinion is logical and excellent.
You are spot on with the issue.

The population is so large that we are often overwhelmed by them. Yet, in percentage terms, they are often no different than us.

Your opinion is spot on,
Regarding the use of cheats, I think there are cultural differences,
but we must not forget that there are decent players as well.

He has made the solid logical case for keeping the regions siloed here.
I'm glad you finally see it.

[eighthwonderbeeton8]

To OP

You have raised the issue. Do you have an idea for a solution to the problem?

[76561198147873687]

My take would be is to Invest in a better anti-cheat software to at least lessen cheaters because right now it's way too easy to hack into the game files of SCUM, taking into account if you have experience in programming language. Gamepires already have a publisher which is Jagex which means money will be involved at some point so why not put that into something the community has been asking for so long. I've been a victim to countless of cheaters regardless of their race, I've also reported hundreds of cheaters way back when I was still playing on official servers and from way back since I started playing SCUM, it's pretty known to the community that playing on official servers will have you most likely go up against blatant cheaters. From my experience, no matter how many times you report said cheaters, they will always come back because again, it's really easy once you know what you're doing.