SCUM
Rasta 21 DIC 2022 a las 12:58
Terrifying monster update
Whatever happened to the subject experiment updates we heard earlier this year? Is that still in developement? like the Queen, the hive.
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Mostrando 1-12 de 12 comentarios
Deathwhisper 21 DIC 2022 a las 13:25 
Hello :),

NPC opponents and creatures are more likely towards the end of the development phase as they should have all the core mechanics available. :)
Deathwhisper 21 DIC 2022 a las 14:40 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
??

do puppets and Mechs currently use " all the core mechanics " ?

They use the current pathing and AI dont they ?

wont the new monsters use their own or parts of the already existing AI ?

Will the new monsters need to cook, or fly or have vitamins/health/diseases and food consumption working to exist ?

Maybe im confused by the term " core mechanics ". What exactly are those and how do they apply to the NPC's ?

Puppets are rather no comparison to what is really possible in the area of NPC opponents. I also don't think that this is the final result for them. You have a simple pathfinding and a simple order: attack until you can't. Accordingly, they often get stuck or jump even though it means their downfall. They simply don't "concern" anything on their way to the goal. Although you can do something like that with an NPC prisoner, the end result would be much more frustration than pleasure.

A sane NPC, however, should distinguish that. What is water, what is fire, what is deep, what is high, what provides cover, etc., so that it is believable and can also act independently. But then everything has to be there, because otherwise this NPC could suffer massive problems and that would lead to immense effort in troubleshooting.

In my first steps in creating modules, I was able to experience this personally because I placed opponents much too hastily. a lot of things changed and were added to, and in the course of this development process I basically broke something every time, which made it take me much longer than it actually should have. In the end, all opponents had to give way again because a lot had changed too much in the course of the creation process or had been supplemented.

With later modular constructions, I only used NPCs at the end, not only with far better results overall (especially with pathfinding) but also in the general ambience and style much better adapted. So right from the start they took into account exactly what they should take into account and acted as desired. So that's not wrong at all. All in all, it is more logical to insert this at the end because: You can then take everything into account that you need, the effort is significantly lower because only a little can be damaged.
Last but not least, you can adapt them in such a way that they fit very well into the game world, which again not only saves time-consuming reworks but also reduces possible conflicts or problems.
Deathwhisper 21 DIC 2022 a las 15:56 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Thank you for the very detailed in depth explanation.

Alot of it i understood but some i didnt and lets just chalk that up to my zero experience in this sort of thing.

Its probably a combination of me not knowing all the " core mechanics " and am only thinking of the very few i do see like cooking/damage/flying ect ect.

I hope the NPC's we do eventually get are like you say they could be ie: avoid things that might damage them and use cover. so in that sense i see the major difference between what we have now and what is needed to make believable NPC's.

There was just alot of hype about them then radio silence. No mention that ive seen in even the weekly update notes describing what all depts are working on..

On this 1 I'll humbly defer to the expertise of the dev team.
They still imo have alot to answer for but this isnt 1 of those things.

Thank you.

I'll start by watching this

https://youtu.be/C8NLT6P9mgY

I'll google NPC AI development and check YT but is there a link you would suggest to get semi educated on the subject ?

Personally, I've never watched videos. I learned my beginnings primarily with reverse engineering. I just plowed everything until nothing worked anymore :D. Videos help me less because I have to do it myself to understand it.

Especially games that bring an editor with them give a good first impression of what everything is related to and what you have to do, depending on the engine, however, this differs a bit.

Fallout 4 Creation Kit was my first major attempt at content creation projects etc but was also difficult to understand without references. So I teamed up with modders to learn from them. Accordingly, I would advise going to a modding hub and talking to the modders there, as there is a great variety of different experiences and you often get good feedback. :)
xKiCkx  [desarrollador] 21 DIC 2022 a las 23:04 
Hey there OP, some stuff that you see leaked are not something that is coming to the game soon, for the monsters it was concept art which means it still has a lot to go through before it would be implemented into the game, being concept art it can as well mean it will not come into the game and that it would be scraped for something else.
Deathwhisper 22 DIC 2022 a las 2:22 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por xKiCkx:
Hey there OP, some stuff that you see leaked are not something that is coming to the game soon, for the monsters it was concept art which means it still has a lot to go through before it would be implemented into the game, being concept art it can as well mean it will not come into the game and that it would be scraped for something else.
It seems to me like there was ALOT of work/money put into this for it to be " scrapped ". Also a good part of the community was really looking 4ward to this.

Im soooooooooooooooooo confused -,-

It's like my example. At the beginning the picture looks different than at the end. It is never very predictable whether the forms and opponent types thought of at the beginning will still fit. So it can happen that something else comes along in the sense of a different appearance and form etc, not that NPCs are generally abandoned.

Like Kick said, Concepts are a very vague thing, they do change but are not worthless as they inspire a lot of just by giving something a visualization.
Doc Holliday 22 DIC 2022 a las 2:22 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por xKiCkx:
Hey there OP, some stuff that you see leaked are not something that is coming to the game soon, for the monsters it was concept art which means it still has a lot to go through before it would be implemented into the game, being concept art it can as well mean it will not come into the game and that it would be scraped for something else.
It seems to me like there was ALOT of work/money put into this for it to be " scrapped ". Also a good part of the community was really looking 4ward to this.

Im soooooooooooooooooo confused -,-

Seems to be the way now, bin a lot of stuff that works, people like etc for 'better' things (cars, AI, base building)

Overall direction is muddled at best, terrible at worst.
Deathwhisper 22 DIC 2022 a las 3:06 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por Deathwhisper:

It's like my example. At the beginning the picture looks different than at the end. It is never very predictable whether the forms and opponent types thought of at the beginning will still fit. So it can happen that something else comes along in the sense of a different appearance and form etc, not that NPCs are generally abandoned.

Like Kick said, Concepts are a very vague thing, they do change but are not worthless as they inspire a lot of just by giving something a visualization.
So the whole Wild Hunter concept could be scrapped for another group of hostile creatures OR the entire concept of hostile creatures could be scrapped ?

I dont care what they look like at any stage . I read his comment to mean the entire concept/mechanic might be scrapped.

What am i missing ?

It's just a possibility. That's why the developers often add WIP, ie work in progress and also that things can still change.

When you show such concepts, there is also a lot of feedback from the community, ideas and a lively exchange of inspiration, which often results in really good things, but of course influences the end result.

As long as nothing else is mentioned here, nothing has changed here either. So you should worry less. Normally, players are less aware of these processes. You can buy a concept art book for many games and you will find a lot there that ultimately doesn't appear. So it's a pretty normal process just shown here in the open rather than hidden.
Doc Holliday 22 DIC 2022 a las 3:15 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por Doc Holliday:

Seems to be the way now, bin a lot of stuff that works, people like etc for 'better' things (cars, AI, base building)

Overall direction is muddled at best, terrible at worst.
Do we even have a road map anymore ?

Not that I can tell.

One of my biggest personal issues with the game is the lack of direction, focus and 'roadmap'. Updates often seem to be swept up that week with what is ready and not planned at all. I'm hopeful I'm wrong but that's certainly the impression that I get.

Going to continue to flog this seemingly dead horse too.... why oh why do they not bite the bullet and rework the database and inventory? The SQL lite, linear database is completely overwhelmed with scum at the moment leading to the majority of the lag and desync that was crippling beforehand and is now a fair bit worse after 0.8. Most servers I have tried (low loot, high loot, low pop, high pop, official etc) all struggle over 30 or 40 players now, not 50 or 60.

Obviously don't stop developing and fixing but for the love of god fix this issue that is holding the game back!
Deathwhisper 22 DIC 2022 a las 3:22 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por Deathwhisper:

It's just a possibility. That's why the developers often add WIP, ie work in progress and also that things can still change.

When you show such concepts, there is also a lot of feedback from the community, ideas and a lively exchange of inspiration, which often results in really good things, but of course influences the end result.

As long as nothing else is mentioned here, nothing has changed here either. So you should worry less. Normally, players are less aware of these processes. You can buy a concept art book for many games and you will find a lot there that ultimately doesn't appear. So it's a pretty normal process just shown here in the open rather than hidden.
/sigh
but he did mention it here

" being concept art it can as well mean it will not come into the game and that it would be scraped for something else. "

Your saying it too.

Are you both talking about the visual art concept or the entire mechanic of underground hunters ?

That means overall. There are a lot of such moments during development. Concepts help to find a direction, even if this can then come to nothing.

In the end, however, it is above all important to keep everything plausible and in lore because that is what ultimately shapes the game world. But as said, it is only intended as a point of information that nothing is set in stone yet and things can easily change for any number of reasons.
xKiCkx  [desarrollador] 22 DIC 2022 a las 3:58 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por xKiCkx:
Hey there OP, some stuff that you see leaked are not something that is coming to the game soon, for the monsters it was concept art which means it still has a lot to go through before it would be implemented into the game, being concept art it can as well mean it will not come into the game and that it would be scraped for something else.
It seems to me like there was ALOT of work/money put into this for it to be " scrapped ". Also a good part of the community was really looking 4ward to this.

Im soooooooooooooooooo confused -,-

I didn't say it's scrapped, I'm saying that what was shown is concept art, and that it still has a lot of work that needs to be done, but there is always a possibility in development for something to be scrapped and replaced with something else.
Última edición por xKiCkx; 22 DIC 2022 a las 3:58
Dracsimus 22 DIC 2022 a las 6:10 
Publicado originalmente por Dies Fourth:
Publicado originalmente por Doc Holliday:

Not that I can tell.

One of my biggest personal issues with the game is the lack of direction, focus and 'roadmap'. Updates often seem to be swept up that week with what is ready and not planned at all. I'm hopeful I'm wrong but that's certainly the impression that I get.

Going to continue to flog this seemingly dead horse too.... why oh why do they not bite the bullet and rework the database and inventory? The SQL lite, linear database is completely overwhelmed with scum at the moment leading to the majority of the lag and desync that was crippling beforehand and is now a fair bit worse after 0.8. Most servers I have tried (low loot, high loot, low pop, high pop, official etc) all struggle over 30 or 40 players now, not 50 or 60.

Obviously don't stop developing and fixing but for the love of god fix this issue that is holding the game back!
Well they HAVE to have a direction even if we dont see it or they dont advertise it.
In their offices they have to have a " war board " that shows some sort of version of the end game and all that they want included in it.

But i agree 100% its a complete mystery based on the additions/DLC, a skin really ? in game additions/planes for example and all the work that went into them versus the amount that are avaliable per server.

cooking still not working but planes kinda do

The brutality of how any new mechanic is released and over the top in your face that trench foot or dirty bandages were shoved down our throats.

how that lil red dumpster fire of a car was released, flipping over so often with no way to flip/use or retrieve any of the disapearing inventory from it over and over. But released anyway.

So yeah i have questions too. We need a pinned topic where we can ask questions and the devs can point blank answer them. Good bad or w/e i dont care if the answers arent to my liking i just want to know wtf is going on.
ur on the forums for ur questions to be addressed as best possible, here at steam.... there is also Discord for more of the same, and faster cheat/bug report/fix
Dracsimus 22 DIC 2022 a las 6:21 
0.9 was mentioned to be the AI re-work and new AI implementation patch. I personally couldnt care less for 0.8. Dont get me wrong, the new POI is NOICE!! and cars rework great also! Kinda burned out of the game after 1500hrs.... so patiently waiting new threats, roaming AI and just AI in general to be implemented/re-worked. But 0.9 is the next big update which mean, if all goes well, new AI, possible roaming AI, Tec1 personel and creepy creatures are scheduled for next BIG update (0.9) maybe 1 year from now.
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Publicado el: 21 DIC 2022 a las 12:58
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