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now ?
Hi as an oldie i feel looking back on it I said too much about what made Scum great and slowly watch it all get changed removed or screw up deliberately some of the changes were so stupid it can only be take none way (am naw a bam) and came at time's when i was at my most vocal that's why i don't speak about Scum much now I know some devs are watching with a knife but iv been cut off now so they can put that away.
considering they are some 4 years into development basically have no finished core features or a working inventory with multi item drag n drop (something promised for year's and more recently on a Lead devs socials) and think thing's like planes are a higher priority it's "plane" to see where the game is heading. I mean com'on i heard they just last week fixed the Supporter pack watch (for most clothing sleeves) which again tells you more about the priority's.
dose anyone remember the "High Energy Puppets" or the "New Mechs" which were spoke about many months if not hitting years now? forget all that stuff and consider the Wild Hunter (not to be confused with the previous wild hunter) update with Spider people and wild hunters and all sorts of crazy stuff that's way off the game path.
at this point is became about showcasing how talented the dev team are than actually progressing and closing off some long standing issues.
Iv followed a few relativity newbie Dev teams and their games enough now and seen enough to notice similar patterns n promises and know where all those roads lead and pretty much how the end product will be and unfortunately Scum will be the same, basically another this that n DayZ.
it's a guaranteed Fact Scum will release with bugs glitches and some unfinished features that will continue to get or be planed to be fixed or further developed after 1.0 release it's not gonna be perfect right out the box. the reason it will be another DayZ is simply because that is the way development works most if not all games follow that same path with thing's in a fairly or barely working state with empathises will be on the next update and content with minor bug fixes here n there.
here is quote from a games developer/publisher in regard's to their fairly new 1.0 released game when asked about fixing game issues and problems which applies too all games developers, am applying it it's multi purpose it fit's all
"most are known but we had no success yet in getting them fixed."
^^^That is in relation to a £30+ 1.0 full release game the best laugh (in this case is) that came from the publisher not the games dev team some 3 /7years avter pre Alpha lol this applies to every games developer and obviously they can't stop development until they resolve one issue and then move on this is the single most reason they realise something then just leave it and continue with new content hence why you end up with years old bugs n glitches like DayZ. could they fix DayZ tbh most probly not they couldn't fix it back then they probly still can't fix it now or just moved on.
I feel the devs aint got the time, team or resources to bring the even increasing pile of content into a coherent manageable project and consider they are normal people get p*ss off and will at time say Screw you that also hinders progress and further frustrates the player base.
it's not my intention to insult hurt or offend as far as I know all the devs work is original all in house and nothing, assets etc were obtained from a 3rd party's unlike other credit stealing dev teams which shall not be named (some of us know they tried to take credit for the work of others) cos it's bad when you let folk assume something or work is yours when it's not.
when I read about the intended "psychic powers" part I knew cutting back from all this was the right move that only confirmed it.
as with all games there's still that hope that the devs will see sense n sorts thing's out with every upcoming update (lol yeah we all thought that before with other games haven't we it will get better with the next update) but only find that with each update it breaks more than it fixes but it's content so should not be complaining.
I think Gampepires might be getting too big there's too many crazy and conflicting ideas that are now just ruining Scum.
maybe Deena became sentient TEC 1 became it's own AI entity and brainwashed it's own creators while they worked on their own game, TEC 1 have taken over the dev's with wireless signals directly to their brains and Gamepires is controlled by Scum AI lol
the bottom line is Scum will be at lest moderately successful make the devs a ton of cash (which they will rightly deserve either way) hopefully retain all rights etc and not sell the IP.
it's looking like a 2024/25 at least for a well developed and coherent game or 2022/23 for a DayZ effort.
Scum will be subject of many "what could have been" conversations for many years after it's release as with most games the modding community's vision and version/s will out last and out shine the developers version again DayZ being the obvious (and more unnamed games) example.
Hi
anyway there's a ton of leaked info on them here
https://twitter.com/dedaPong?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
just wait for the devs announcing they have joined with "Disney" I wonder if folk discovered the "Mickey Mouse Easter Egg" in game lol and to the folk who think am joking remember the "Friday the 13th" and "Donnie Darko" movie References and that famous Hollywood actor guy (iv never heard of) comes in game there's certainly a willingness to crossover. obviously the dev's would have to deny any future of involvement of "Disney" or an in game "Mickey Mouse mask" "for now!" until it's official, but it's Early Access anything can happen!
if folk think thing's are bad now wait till the console version development get's announced if both Pc and console versions are both in development at the same time then yous will see the Pc version really go to hellol
There was promotional videos showing the following:
Inertial physics on running and turning- This seems to be in the game but it doesn't have much of an impact on really anything.
More sophisticated hand to hand combat (boxing and other martial arts) - not in yet, like not even the boxing has changed at all since release.
Metabolism - For the most part this is in but requires more fleshing out. This also included a strong suggestion there would be a way to get a gym style work out.
Camo skill - This worked as advertised and was then nerfed into oblivion (there's a claim of a rework but no details have been given)
Tactical "memory" - There was this whole system of making predictions about player location based on the avatar's "memory" of location data. This idea seems to have been scrapped.
Cooking - Cooking has been changed multiple times and if memory serves me it's only worked in one of those iterations and no longer works.
In contrast to these features that were clearly promoted there are features that were flatly denied from the game that later were put in.
Base building - It was clearly stated multiple times there was no plan to add base building and that modifying buildings with furniture and other items would be the shelter option. We are now about to receive our 5th version of the base building system and the base building/raiding dynamic has completely taken over the all other game loops. I grant that this has a lot to do with not having other content in the game but it was a development choice to add this unadvertised system to the game prior to and rather than the advertised content. The result is you have a base raiding game....for now. This isn't what the marketing material reflects .
Vehicles - I don't recall vehicles ever being mentioned before they actually appeared in the game. This was true of motorcycles, boats, and planes. It's like the game went from maybe a few vehicles to a game where people actually believe the vehicles are instrumental to the game. So much so that they endlessly complain about not being able to find one. Base building combined with vehicle hording has probably generated more complaints and controversy than any other single subject on these forums. (besides maybe family share lol)
Traders - (a big one) Traders as far as i can tell were only mentioned on this forum by people requesting it and really i would have said the issue was split down the middle as far as people wanting them or not. Yet here we are with not only one trader but several and more on the way. Not only are there traders but there's a complex of highly polished and well designed models (lots of work). Not one part of this was part of the original game that was being promoted. I want to be clear here, the work done on the traders is world class and should be admired as a solid add in pure coding and art design terms, really its good work. That said, not part of the game i thought i was paying for years ago and it completely transformed the game.
Now, as a consumer i do think that some level of commitment to a stated goal when selling a product is important even when it's not quite finished, no matter what disclaimer you give. At the end of the day you collected money based on the promise of a product in the future and that should be respected.
However, speaking as someone who works in a creative profession in RL i completely understand how things can be shaped over time by the feedback of a customer. If i were to point of the biggest problem with taking a game to EA its that you are allowing people to give feedback on fragments of the product and not the complete product. Other products simply don't work this way. I am a Chef in RL and i can't imagine letting the dining public taste each individual component on a plate and give feedback on that one thing prior to tasting the entire dish together. Not only would that result in an outcome that is outside of my expertise as a professional but it would also add a multitude of other issues, such as dramatically slowed development time for the dish and an increased risk of there being some kind of conflict between the different parts of the dish....I think you can see where I'm going with this.
In my view the project needs to be shifted into ONLY finishing and not further expanding the scope of the game. There really should be no more "surprises" for the original backers of the game. The game, and what was advertised needs to be the focus...the only focus, until the game is done. The surprises should come later.
I'm not saying if SCUM is or is not a surival game. It is for sure.
I'm saying that SCUM is redesigning this idea, the category, by breaking so many boundaries.
So by raising the bar, if you keep your marketing similar to another old game you attract players that are used to those simple mechanics and maybe are not SCUM prospect.
Maybe you can try to reach players that love different approaches. That appreciate metabolism mechanics, enjoy learning lockpicking, see diseases as a natural aspect in survival games and are willing to spend days sneaking around mechs unnoticed.
Maybe even players that do not like PvP too much as you are bringing PvE content.
And this can be done by guiding video content creators to drop PvP/raid for a while and focus more them on SCUM mechanics and all the stuff Tomislav leakead on tiwtter in the last months.
Streamer for sure will show new content in future, but as happened in the past it will be a flash. Then they go back to PvP-raiding.
As you got a lot of stuff incoming, PvE mostly, take a shift in your marketing approach and bring more in evidence to SCUM mechanics like metabolism, diseases, etc.
Guide your community, from content creator to followers, with a dedicated narrative on these cose aspects.
And this could be pushed more and more, as you are (I don't think you realize it yet) the LEADER of this category.
In marketing this is called guard/oversee a theme (not sure that is the right term in english), so each time someone say "survival games", in most player's mind the first thought is "SCUM".
As usual some weird idea from a old player.
Raykit talked of a interview with devs 2-3 weeks about the new features, so I maybe that stuff could be in game during or after summer, just a personal speculation.
From my point of view, this game is quite superior to the original concept.
It's not my will to discuss your opinion, it's yours.
Metabolism 2.0 is quite rock solid from my point of view. Disease will make the game different, if devs will keep this road.
Camo was nerfed....yes but by community.
Same for weapon malfunction, patches, night, water consumption, etc. (brought back the old patches concept as the new dirty effects seems the same old story :D)
Cooking will be reworked and it has never been changed form 0.2, If I'm not mistaken.
Meele is a fondamental feature? Yes and no, mostly no now, from my point of view.
Maybe after the new NPCs that focus their tactics more on smell and sound.
Yes some feature have been watered down by community request and other are still on the limbo but the original concept is quite the same of actual SCUM.
Yes, I think dev should take less consideration about feedback on some aspects, so dedicate less time about tweaking them, except for bugs or things working weird.
Camo was nerfed by the developers in response to PVP focused players crying about being sniped because they don't like a play style that doesn't allow them to show off their twitch skills. This is exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't happen. Camo is basically a dead skill now. It went from a solid contender as a must have skill with the others in it's category to being a complete waste of skill points in creation. It's really that useless now. The devs made that choice and they didn't have to and now they're in a position where they must rework it. This isn't because the ability was bad as it was, it was fine. The issue is the ability was being taken out of the context of the entire game and only being measured in the limited PVP aspect of the game. This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow a sampling of game systems one by one rather than as a completed mesh of systems. This is only a minor example of it there are others that are much more severe.
Melee being a fundamental feature isn't the issue, the issue is it was advertised. Remember this is a thread about bad marketing. So fundamental or not the point is there hasn't been any changes made to a system they have clearly said multiple times will be in the vs1 of the game and while progress on new systems that were never talked about seems to be moving along this system has seen nothing change aside from damage multipliers during the entire development.
The cooking has been altered multiple times (4 total i believe) as to when the last alteration was made i can't say for sure but the point stands that it seems to be a system That was clearly part of the fund raising phase but seems to have fallen behind in the development phase. The thing is we have no idea if its any closer now to being finished than it was 3 years ago. This past patch we had a large influx of new players buy the game. On the server i play on we were getting questions from these players daily about cooking. Our only response is "don't bother". What this tells me is people bought the game (granted it is EA) led to believe the cooking would be a thing and it's not. So from a marketing perspective this is a failure.
I think when you talk about the concept being the same you would have to zoom that out to its most abstract elements. Does it still follow the themes set out? yes. Does there seem to be a movement toward the promise of PVE content? yes. Is it generally a survival type game? Maybe, but certainly not to the extent it was sold as, and that is the point. They sold a concept to a massive number of people first, then over time either didn't deliver on that or altered it to the extent that some of us are scratching our heads.
I want to be very clear here....I am not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the game. It has provided me with nearly 8k hours of enjoyment for $20. No greater bargain have a i seen in gaming. The truth is aside from traders i actually like most everything they have added. However, if i take an objective view of the facts the game now is clearly not what was advertised during the fund raising effort. Not only does it not have all those features but it has features that we (early funders) were led to believe in explicit terms would not be in the game ever. This is worthy to take note of because there is still a lot of game to be made and it is becoming harder to predict how far off the original mark it will be now.
They show their idea, their vision and not a final products.
It's like pitching a film or a idea for a business, you put your idea, your thought and ask people to belive in you. It's impossible that the final products will be the same.
It's like a sketch of a painting, you could guess the painter idea, the style, the concept. But final painting will be different. For sure.
But I understand marketing and why some statement could have been done.
And maybe some feature were shown at the beginning, maybe with a clear idea in mind to implement them only near 1.0 for technical reasons.
Or maybe after being shown, they change their mind. It's their creature and are free to do change it, while still keeping the general idea.
Yes, some feature will never being implemented, but the game is not tetris now, so from my point of view, actual SCUM is still SCUM.
Btw being part of this non linear process, interacting with devs, have the chance of talking with different players, exchange idea, etc worth much more than the price I paid or some good times in game. For sure I still want to see the final version, but playing some old beta was very funny, even more than 0.7 to me.
Anyway, you know, for me actual trader's economy is a no-go element of SCUM so my journey ended with it.
Going back to topic I really think that switching marketing now is something gamespire should do, or the actual community will drag them down to old mechanics and game concepts. The same old story of shooting slow moving targets is what most people want and It comes from mobile games. No brain, no stress.
They need players with a fresh open mind, willing to try and test new features.
Not players that comes here to play a final products complaining why some feature are not implemented or bugs still present.
So from one side they still need to attracts causal classic gamers, to keep funding the game. But, IMHO, they also need to attract a totally different kind of players (and streamers) that look to SCUM as it is, a game in develop.
In marketing is not what you show the important part, but HOW you show it.
A streamer could enjoy the path of getting a infected wound the way to to heal.
Not decribing the new feature but playing it. Enjoying it.
It's not green hell for sure, there is a lot here that make the game really funny and enjoyable.
Another example, water.
Take away those water bottles from bunkers, remove the ability to build wells anywhere, add polluted/dirty water with related dieases, add way to purify it. Then mix it with metabolism engine.
And tell me, another FPS game of survival genre that have the same depth about water.
And maybe a streamer could dedicate his sessions on this, finding water. From collecting rain to enter a risky place just to get some water.
We could have been disappointed from some missing feature, some change of direction, but this is still the best game around and for me it will become the leader of the pack in FPS survival games.
But they need to make some elements (metabolism engine) a VALUE and not a boring feature like many players report it here.
And this is all about marketing...
The things that weren't talked about initially but came to the game aren't necessarily new additions to their idea, either. Some might be, but we were never given the entire design document that we see Tomislav post things from on twitter from time to time. They're the only ones who know all of it.
I don't think they're deviating that much from their idea of things. I think a lot of us, over time, start to think that the assumptions we made and let simmer in our heads were what the devs said / intended. Just like everyone has a different view of what 'survival' means. When the devs say it we all think they mean what we 'hear' with our own opinion. Some think it means they have to keep from being killed by other players, while some think it means not dying of dysentery after eating a burrito they made with a low cooking skill.
As for driving a new marketing campaign now I can see why they might not want to. It's like the road map. As soon as they start the 'new' marketing some will scream, "That's not what you originally said!" Later others will complain when something in the new marketing gets changed or doesn't happen. Then it'll be, "You promised <insert thing>!" The word promise has already cropped up in this thread.
Don't think so, if you start to focus more on metabolism, that was #1 feature of SCUM.
Think about a streamer focused on a survival journey, in a tweaked server with very low resources around. Like the trip made by Tomislav with a char with all stats at 1 to dimonstrate how realiable and realistic is the engine.
Or maybe another stream that deal with all the side effects from attacks of new NPC.
With the new content available, shifting the focus to a more immersive / "introspective" approach could bring players that love more these PvE aspects.
SCUM need more PvE, saying that my PoV, where is PvE is usually quite boring.
But many play PvE or SP, so having streamers in a very harsh environment showing these aspects, well for me could help a lot to move the brand away from other games.
Well mutants will bring some SciFi into the game, and this was part of the original lore.
If you have support packs n. 2 there is a lot of materials on this aspect.
https://imgur.com/Ye3qsJ4
(sorry devs, just found a pic on web...don't want to spoil SP2)
Me, I just want some deadly NPC or this game will never complete his journey to a full survival game.