Puppets in killbox

[DarkLink]

How many puppets spawn in the killbox? Is a MP5 with two full mags enough to bring? Do they come from outside so you can place mines or do they just spawn in the room? Just found my first keycard so would like to know what to expect and dont have alot of weapons to bring. Thank you.

[tienpauh]

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

How it is unfriendly? I'm confused on that one.

That didn't mean it was unfriendly. :)

It's more like when you go out to play and a guardian reminds you to behave in a friendly manner, but smiles at the same time. Difficult to smile or emphasize unfortunately in a forum. :)

Ah, well I am most likely a bit older than you and have a lot of experience as to what constitutes manners . Usually moderators state such things when they suspect something is actually going wrong which is why i was confused.

Originally posted by Deathwhisper:

Here I like to organize events for players without the skills to pass a killbox. Administrators have a chance to open killboxes via command...

It would be excellent if there was admin commands which were more automated, like setting what kind of locks, and setting the time to defuse etc. I am sure this is quite a simple thing to implement and would allow people to still use skill, just not the overly difficult ones that are currently set in stone.

[Seal]

Originally posted by CheeseKing:

Like Insetto said, you don't really have to go to killbox. Only thing you can't find else where is the C4 parts that are inside, but we currently feel that it is balanced. You have 5 doors with the iron lock on it, if we were to create the locks like it is in the cargo drop or police stations there would almost be no challenge whatsoever to take everything in a matter of minutes.

Current screwdriver tradeoff is probably not the best, but if you were to lockpick stuff from the police station you can also find nothing inside. In killbox you will at least find something if you manage to lockpick it.

We have tried the killbox again on our server and I must admit I was wrong. There´s only one golden lock. I suppose that with advanced lockpicking, less screwdrivers and picks are required. Even this test was really fun. And, indeed, we have felt quite balanced. Very easy when is a two players squad. Good work!

[Seal]

Originally posted by S.T.A.L.K.E.R:

So killboxes are only worth it for the c4, which then can be used for raiding. Just started to play this game and found a keycard and looking for info on said card. But after reading this threat i see no reason to do these killboxes expend allot of material just for a chance to get some c4. I will keep raiding normal military POI and just loot that. Since the devs are active on this threat can you share some insight if there is gonna be more exclusive loot added to these killboxes?

Not only for C4. Is for 100% health good military loot.
What I like the most about the killbox, and the reason I always recommend it, is because it´s an awesome and stressful challenge! Totally recommended.

The only thing that seems to me that should be changed is the loss of points. IMHO points should be earned in the killbox. In this way, it would also be an attractive place where you can earn more fame points, for providing entertainment to the TV show

[insettoinfetto]

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Yes you don't have to but with the limited content in SCUM it would be nice to have that as something we could do. As it stands only a small % of players can do it successfully (and strikingly even a smaller % can do it without using a ton of resources thus making the investment dubious) if the devs are satisfied with that and don't want to balance it so the majority of other players can experience completion too then the discussion is pretty much and unfortunately ended right there. Thanks.

If you ever played a MMO you should know that some content is just for few players.
It happens everywhere. Some game use the P2W method, other use a sort of planned lowering of difficulty when new content is going to be added, other is more based on luck, grinding a repuration, etc.
There is always a element that stop a % of players for doing it.

So I don't think that 100% of the game should be reachable by 100% of players without special efforts or dedication.

About what admin says, we were kind and friendly so maybe they just misinterpret our discussion.

[insettoinfetto]

Originally posted by Seal:

Originally posted by CheeseKing:

Like Insetto said, you don't really have to go to killbox. Only thing you can't find else where is the C4 parts that are inside, but we currently feel that it is balanced. You have 5 doors with the iron lock on it, if we were to create the locks like it is in the cargo drop or police stations there would almost be no challenge whatsoever to take everything in a matter of minutes.

Current screwdriver tradeoff is probably not the best, but if you were to lockpick stuff from the police station you can also find nothing inside. In killbox you will at least find something if you manage to lockpick it.

We have tried the killbox again on our server and I must admit I was wrong. There´s only one golden lock. I suppose that with advanced lockpicking, less screwdrivers and picks are required. Even this test was really fun. And, indeed, we have felt quite balanced. Very easy when is a two players squad. Good work!

Yep told you, it's doable and quite easy with 2+ players. It's only hard doing it solo.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Originally posted by Seal:

Originally posted by S.T.A.L.K.E.R:

So killboxes are only worth it for the c4, which then can be used for raiding. Just started to play this game and found a keycard and looking for info on said card. But after reading this threat i see no reason to do these killboxes expend allot of material just for a chance to get some c4. I will keep raiding normal military POI and just loot that. Since the devs are active on this threat can you share some insight if there is gonna be more exclusive loot added to these killboxes?

Not only for C4. Is for 100% health good military loot.
What I like the most about the killbox, and the reason I always recommend it, is because it´s an awesome and stressful challenge! Totally recommended.

The only thing that seems to me that should be changed is the loss of points. IMHO points should be earned in the killbox. In this way, it would also be an attractive place where you can earn more fame points, for providing entertainment to the TV show

Yeah i find allot of sewing kits and weapon cleaning kits that 100% dura is not an issue for me, i can also buy the military items except the c4. I get it might be fun for an veteran player but for me there is no incentive other then its epic and c4.

[tienpauh]

Originally posted by insettoinfetto:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Yes you don't have to but with the limited content in SCUM it would be nice to have that as something we could do. As it stands only a small % of players can do it successfully (and strikingly even a smaller % can do it without using a ton of resources thus making the investment dubious) if the devs are satisfied with that and don't want to balance it so the majority of other players can experience completion too then the discussion is pretty much and unfortunately ended right there. Thanks.

If you ever played a MMO you should know that some content is just for few players.
It happens everywhere. Some game use the P2W method, other use a sort of planned lowering of difficulty when new content is going to be added, other is more based on luck, grinding a repuration, etc.
There is always a element that stop a % of players for doing it.

So I don't think that 100% of the game should be reachable by 100% of players without special efforts or dedication.

About what admin says, we were kind and friendly so maybe they just misinterpret our discussion.

Scum doesn't feel like an mmorpg where often there is gear dependant bottle necks. The killbox for instance can be simply impossible even with the top gears. Even with special dedication and practice the killbox still is unachievable for many players and that is the problem. Also given the very limited content in SCUM it is a shame that there is unachievable things like the killbox, also why not have tiers of difficulty in killbox, it doesn't all need to be the same level. I also think it would be totally fine to have admin controls to adjust the difficulty, this way people can experience more of the game, there are adjustable commands for many other factors which do just that, neglecting it for killbox is a shame.

[thomas_1611]

Originally posted by tienpauh:

The killbox for instance is simply impossible even with the top gears. .

Not true.

Scum Solo Kill Box Guide for New Players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRl2y-cJsdg

Scum - The Interactive Pro Guide - Part 27 - Kill Box Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YED-SwrHFqY

Scum - The Interactive Pro Guide - Part 14 - How to do a Kill Box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOUCB7eoGE

I haven't done one solo, but with one other teammate we were able to get in to one of the easier lockers. He cut wires and defended against puppets and I picked. If I were better at picking we might have got two open. So I can tell you from experience that it is totally doable for a two-man team to get in and get at least one set of gear.

[tienpauh]

Originally posted by Thomas:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

The killbox for instance is simply impossible even with the top gears. .

Not true.

I haven't done one solo, but with one other teammate we were able to get in to one of the easier lockers. He cut wires and defended against puppets and I picked. If I were better at picking we might have got two open. So I can tell you from experience that it is totally doable for a two-man team to get in and get at least one set of gear.

You edited my comment and replaced " can be" with "IS", that makes a total difference to my statement which is a rather peculiar thing to do if one wants coherent discussion. "The killbox for instance CAN BE simply impossible even with the top gears."

I don't see how top gears really make things any easier for many other players that is the point (your videos posted themselves show killing puppets with bayonets for instance not max geared weaponry and fwiw we did study a number of killbox tutorials) , the locks dont become easier nor the defusion (a video showing how the human hands use the keyboard/mouse and a tutorial how to actually do the locks might help but I am afraid it will display a technique that is beyond a number of people).

I agree it is possible for some players but It is true from the experience of many other players that it is not possible even with practice. I think that one should think outside of their own experience, because I certainly have seen it being impossible from the experience of many other players on my server even with a lot of practice. In fact this is a non debatable experience because you can't simply say we are mistaken or haven't had enough practice. I am offering feedback and suggestions from our experience, what the devs do with that is up to them, but I don't find debating our experience actually provides any useful outcome because it is what it is.

[thomas_1611]

Originally posted by tienpauh:

You edited my comment and replaced " can be" with "IS", that makes a total difference to my statement which is a rather peculiar thing to do if one wants coherent discussion.

I certainly did not, though I do note that you have edited the quoted comment. I simply hit the "quote" button when replying to you. You edited your post to make it look as though I have been disingenuous.

In the first video I posted, Luthias enters a killbox solo with all the required tools. He only brings a pistol with 3 magazines and a bushman knife for weaponry. He wirecuts and defends while lockpicking. He gains the kar98 with bayonette in one of the loot containers, he also gains an AK kit and an MP5 kit, SOLO.

In my own experience, with a team-mate to defend against the puppets, it was challenging to get one of the locked doors open, but we did it. I am not good at lockpicking by any means... we just happened to have brought at least 200 screwdriver uses...

Just go and try again instead of whining that it's too hard.

[tienpauh]

I am certain I did not alter IS with CAN BE as an afterthought (I have always claimed that the killbox IS possible nothing different as all my previous posts on this thread will substantiate so I wouldn't contradict myself), it doesn't matter in any case, I have pointed out the confused discussion that followed since that word was misrepresented.

Originally posted by Thomas:

Just go and try again instead of whining that it's too hard.

I find it sad (and unncessary) that you reduce my commentary here to "whining" if you don't like what I am writing you don't have to respond to it nor read it. I am offering feedback and suggestion, that is what a discussion forum is for, not simply agreeing with one another. And we did try and practice for many hours, quite a lot actually.

You yourself have stated previously: 16 Oct @ 8:35am " it's true that the lockpicking difficulty makes them very intimidating even for some experienced players". Very intimidating even for some of the experienced players really does highlight a level of difficulty which makes it understandable that many will not be able to achieve it even with practice, let alone get beyond the one locker that you only managed to get through yourself with your teammate (I did mention that pure luck has allowed us to get through some of it in a previous posts, but this doesn't really feel like skill, rather just plain luck). Thank you.

[insettoinfetto]

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Scum doesn't feel like an mmorpg where often there is gear dependant bottle necks.

It depends. Some use reputation, other a farming attitude, others number of players...there are many ways to limit the accessability of some content to players. It's not just gear.

In killbox it's skill and resources. You need a lot of LP stuff to be sure to open all doors.

Originally posted by tienpauh:

The killbox for instance can be simply impossible even with the top gears. Even with special dedication and practice the killbox still is unachievable for many players and that is the problem.

This is your experience. Mine is that you can do it even with low tier weapon as you only need to kill few puppets. Even with 2-3 mag of a M9 you can do it. This if we talk about weapons.

For defusing there is no top gear, just skill and practice.

For LP the amount of stuff you need is bases on your skill. For sure with looted ones (med-adv lockpickers) you can make it faster, but you can do it even with improvised ones.
Gloves are a bit rare now but you can buy them. Screwdrivers are quite common if you use the red ones.

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Also given the very limited content in SCUM it is a shame that there is unachievable things like the killbox, also why not have tiers of difficulty in killbox, it doesn't all need to be the same level. I also think it would be totally fine to have admin controls to adjust the difficulty, this way people can experience more of the game, there are adjustable commands for many other factors which do just that, neglecting it for killbox is a shame.

This is my last reply as It seems we are in a loop.

Let's say easy version of killbox is like :
only basic rusty locks like police station
no zappers
failed defuse just lower the time of 10 sec.
at the end the gas won't kill you just make you loose 1% of life per 1 min
only skinny puppets will spawn
the containers spawn just melee weapons, hunting rifles, shotguns or basic handguns and related ammo.
Will you do it?

[tienpauh]

Originally posted by insettoinfetto:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Scum doesn't feel like an mmorpg where often there is gear dependant bottle necks.

It depends. Some use reputation, other a farming attitude, others number of players...there are many ways to limit the accessability of some content to players. It's not just gear.

In killbox it's skill and resources. You need a lot of LP stuff to be sure to open all doors.

Gear is probably the most used bottle neck for MMORPGs though, so many examples to choose from. Of course there are others but I was focusing on what is most commonly found. In SCUM however it is not gear dependant for being able to do killbox (unless it is the vast amount of lock picking materials required), that was ultimately my point.

Originally posted by insettoinfetto:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

The killbox for instance can be simply impossible even with the top gears. Even with special dedication and practice the killbox still is unachievable for many players and that is the problem.

This is your experience. Mine is that you can do it even with low tier weapon as you only need to kill few puppets. Even with 2-3 mag of a M9 you can do it. This if we talk about weapons.

For defusing there is no top gear, just skill and practice.



For LP the amount of stuff you need is bases on your skill. For sure with looted ones (med-adv lockpickers) you can make it faster, but you can do it even with improvised ones.
Gloves are a bit rare now but you can buy them. Screwdrivers are quite common if you use the red ones.

It is not only my individual experience but that of some 30+ players on my server, a point that I was sure to give in my previous posts. This is a small sample space but it was strong enough for me to realise that it is not only my own problem that the killbox is very difficult and only pure luck allows us to do it (which doesn't feel that satisfying).

My point was that the gear itself is irrelevant (other than the lock picking materials) we often did it with bayonets quite satisfactory. Our skill levels in all else is quite high due to our overall playing experience, but with the lockpicking no amount of practice really helped and we relied on luck, this is the experience for my server, this is not to say it is impossible, I understand others can do it consistently, that lack of consistency is what turned all of my server off from doing it, again, luck doesn't feel very accomplishing.

Originally posted by insettoinfetto:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

Also given the very limited content in SCUM it is a shame that there is unachievable things like the killbox, also why not have tiers of difficulty in killbox, it doesn't all need to be the same level. I also think it would be totally fine to have admin controls to adjust the difficulty, this way people can experience more of the game, there are adjustable commands for many other factors which do just that, neglecting it for killbox is a shame.

This is my last reply as It seems we are in a loop.

Let's say easy version of killbox is like :
only basic rusty locks like police station
no zappers
failed defuse just lower the time of 10 sec.
at the end the gas won't kill you just make you loose 1% of life per 1 min
only skinny puppets will spawn
the containers spawn just melee weapons, hunting rifles, shotguns or basic handguns and related ammo.
Will you do it?

Yes, I did suggest that our discussion had completed so it does look like a lot of unnecessary repetition. Again I don't want to get into a discussion of such specifics (your custom suggestion might actually be totally desirable for some people so why not allow it, of course it would be undesirable for others but an admin control to allow such setups would be the logical solution.) I already suggested that admin controls to customise the killbox experience would be perfect. Being able to set the locks, the timer for defusion and all other factors. Like I said, there are other admin controls which allow the experience of the game to be altered and it would be good if that also included the killbox. This would ultimately allow more people to attempt it successfully and enjoy the content.

[thomas_1611]

Originally posted by tienpauh:

So many quotations

The thing that makes this discussion unreadable is your nested quotation boxes including the whole thread.

SCUM is a hard game. Just practice more in single player until you can master the needed skills.

Could KBs use some balancing or other challenges? sure, but in the mean-time they really aren't that hard to figure out: One guy covers while the other guy picks locks. There's nearly zero risk if you go in with a friend. If you're lucky you get out with a kit or two. Just try again if you fail.

[tienpauh]

Originally posted by Thomas:

Originally posted by tienpauh:

So many quotations

The thing that makes this discussion unreadable is your nested quotation boxes including the whole thread.

SCUM is a hard game. Just practice more in single player until you can master the needed skills.

Could KBs use some balancing or other challenges? sure, but in the mean-time they really aren't that hard to figure out: One guy covers while the other guy picks locks. There's nearly zero risk if you go in with a friend. If you're lucky you get out with a kit or two. Just try again if you fail.

I don't think misquoting me really helps discussion, in any case I'm sure what I presented is quite readable, certainly not Impossible for those who are actually interested.

We have done it successfully but it felt like utter luck as I have already stated. We have actually practice it for a lot of hours, again something I stated. So it isn't a matter of practice more for us or getting more expeience, you might be aware of diminishing returns with large amount of practice when it comes to working on a single skill set (a common factor with many learned skills not only computer gaming). I have close to 900 hours and my team mates some 2-3 times or more than that a percentage of which was dedicated to trying to crack the killbox with consistent skill. Our experience really has nothing to do with practicing more that avenue is quite saturated. On one server someone demonstrated their skill with the killbox which left us quite astounded, that kind of skill is not learnable for us. In any case my contribution here was to suggest admin controls over the killbox which seems a fair enough request given many other factors of gameplay are able to be modified with an automated setting.