The Safe Zone & Traders

[Dyerektor]

Hi one for the dev's are there any plans to enable the buying of guns and ammo etc in the safe zone?

if so please reconsider buying other types of supplies is far enough i think but "Buying Pvp" it would take a lot away from the game and is not very survival tbh

let guns (be found or traded among players) n ammo (found crafted or traded among players) in game please.

just a thought

[Siamese]

Originally posted by Funky:

How is selling food survival , or medicine ? These things are just as vital as guns and bullets, especially once we get metabolism/diseases.

Traders should either not exist , or sell everything , can't pick & choose what items u find 'survivally' over what others find ' survivally ' imo.

Perhaps the food available would be just the junk food such as chips and soda. This would mean you would still need to find more healthy options at some point but you wouldn't simply starve if it came down to it.

[Faustus]

Originally posted by Funky:

How is selling food survival , or medicine ? These things are just as vital as guns and bullets, especially once we get metabolism/diseases.

Traders should either not exist , or sell everything , can't pick & choose what items u find 'survivally' over what others find ' survivally ' imo.

Fair point.
From what i know is that gameplay changes a lot as soon as traders come into play. I would say NO to the "Arms traders are more important then anything else" claim. But when put into a larger concept then just gun trading and with a price tag on it, it might become interesting again. I just don't want to see people gather "junk" all day so they can trade it for high end gear. The way most here seem to imagine it. Use NPC's as a junk dump and get the stuff you want without having to loot for it.

Let's say the safe zone has a marketplace where players would trade stuff for other things or money with other players. That I think would be okay and less of an exploit as to gather 1k handgun bullets and change it for an AK.

Having a kitchen in the safe zone and being able to buy food there (for a price) would be cool. Same with others things. Let's say you are sick and can not heal yourself because you don't have enough skill. There might be a doctor in the safe zone you can give some money etc. to give you medicine or patch wounds. NPC's could replace functions that otherwise other people would have to fill inside of a squad. But having a medic in your squad would still be better because it's not as pricey as to pay an NPC. Searching medicine for hours while being sick might not always be a suitable solution. (Death)

Same thing with other skills.

[marktkm]

Originally posted by Dyerektor:

getting ambushed and robbed is all part of the danger. I don't think guns and ammo should be accepted by NPC traders and only be bartered with between players in the safety of the safe zone.

Getting ambushed and robbed is also why a lot of players don't bother with player-to-player interaction unless they have to / chance to run into someone. Having an option (like a trader being the middle man between two players making a trade) can only encourage more.

I'm thinking along the lines of two players meet at the traders, put their side of the offer on a table (at which point it can't be taken by the other player), and if both agree that it's a good deal they click some sort of 'accept' button and the items go into their respective inventory. A 'reject' button and it comes back to them.

The idea that a trader that trades all items will somehow make the game a walk in the park and eliminate the need to loot can be countered rather easily by the pricing. Take Funky's Mosin. (Just borrowing it, Funky. You'll get it back later.) At the trader it's 100,000. But the trader only pays 800-1000 for an AK, maybe 1200 for an SVD. You'd have to do a lot of looting to get enough of the other guns to get that. And common things like scrap and rubber bands go for 1. Maybe a bandage pack goes for 10. Easily adjusted to keep the traders from replacing looting.

And if they only traded higher value items that they were sold by players (and in the numbers that they were sold by players) it maintains the same rarity of items and balance as the spawn table.

"Mosin? Nope. Ain't got no Mosin. I got 12,345 M9's, about 7892 Tec409's,...oh, and a metal tipped spear! Sure is shiny."

Some would prefer to trade with other players directly (and cheaper), those that don't want to have an option in the trader. It allows for both groups to enjoy the game, without pushing the other away.

[Dyerektor]

Originally posted by marktkm:

Originally posted by Dyerektor:

getting ambushed and robbed is all part of the danger. I don't think guns and ammo should be accepted by NPC traders and only be bartered with between players in the safety of the safe zone.

Getting ambushed and robbed is also why a lot of players don't bother with player-to-player interaction unless they have to / chance to run into someone. Having an option (like a trader being the middle man between two players making a trade) can only encourage more.

hi tbh there's a lot of factors that determine the PVP the server, the people, etc the overall nature, mechanics, environment the dev's and players are creating.

I think not having a middle man is best i want it to be direct person to person interaction without a need for a middle man while NPC's are good they do have a chance of talking a lot of interaction between players off players and the reason why is. a person will got to the safe zone and right to the NPC's and walk past normal players, and many wont even or attempt to interact with other players. many will go to the safe zone do their thing and leave.

but if the trading was left more on the player, it means people will be more inclined to interact with others and talk more, which is good socially, and in turn it sets up a bit of trust chances more chance of more interactions and dialog between players in the world too. if people were meeting at the safe zone regularly they would have that chance to get to know each other and chances are when people realize most folk are really cool everyone can drop the defenses and relax more in general. folk often wear the same clothing or carry a particular items so there's a better chance you will start recognizing/identifying folk before you kill them. if people are having regular positive interactions at the safe zone they will not want to be killing those people in the world. there are always some hardcore pvpers that wont change though

Originally posted by marktkm:

I'm thinking along the lines of two players meet at the traders, put their side of the offer on a table (at which point it can't be taken by the other player), and if both agree that it's a good deal they click some sort of 'accept' button and the items go into their respective inventory. A 'reject' button and it comes back to them.

imo trading should be risky and tense, issues of trust should be one the line, remember thieves are around waiting to yoink anything a careless player puts on the ground, will the person your gonna trade double cross you? trade wisely and safely preferably away from groups of people it's about creating/giving players every opportunity for interaction as possible, to try bridged that current void.

everyone basically practices social distancing and always have done since Scum came out lol

Originally posted by marktkm:

The idea that a trader that trades all items will somehow make the game a walk in the park and eliminate the need to loot can be countered rather easily by the pricing. Take Funky's Mosin. (Just borrowing it, Funky. You'll get it back later.) At the trader it's 100,000. But the trader only pays 800-1000 for an AK, maybe 1200 for an SVD. You'd have to do a lot of looting to get enough of the other guns to get that. And common things like scrap and rubber bands go for 1. Maybe a bandage pack goes for 10. Easily adjusted to keep the traders from replacing looting.

guns are very accessible and already have a big enough influence in Scum they don't need anymore influence. the safe zone should be more focused on the survival aspects/elements and a social hub for interaction, it should be a more civilian focused place. NPC traders having guns it's only makes people associate relate the safe zone to arms and pvp.

I imagining being able to buy some things that i cant craft cos iv not got advanced level construction, crafting or receiving medical treatment cos im diseased or injured ad don't have a high enough medical skill and must pay for those services that would be quite good. to be able to buy some items you cant craft cos you ant got a high enough skill like a metal chest for example.

it would be better for me to hit the safe zone walk around asking folk if any one is trading arms? if someone says yes what you looking for? i could say an AKM then ask their price? their price could be cash, items, a job or even a hit. but if you just walk up to an NPC and can buy guns it petty much kills that off that chance of interaction. if people were interacting more it would create more characters in game,Scum lacks social interaction and most interaction is pvp/kos.

Originally posted by marktkm:

And if they only traded higher value items that they were sold by players (and in the numbers that they were sold by players) it maintains the same rarity of items and balance as the spawn table.

"Mosin? Nope. Ain't got no Mosin. I got 12,345 M9's, about 7892 Tec409's,...oh, and a metal tipped spear! Sure is shiny."

lol don't lose Funky's mosin

Originally posted by marktkm:

Some would prefer to trade with other players directly (and cheaper), those that don't want to have an option in the trader. It allows for both groups to enjoy the game, without pushing the other away.

the problem is guns already have far too much importance and influence in Scum imo they don't need any more and certainly don't need to be made anymore easier to access.
NPC's trading selling arms would keep the pvp side of Scum more importance that the survival element.

imo the safe zone should be intended to be more of a survival related place than a place for arms and pvp. its a good opportunity for the dev's to balance the survival element (which many say it's lacking) by not implementing NPC Arms traders

[GamerBeast]

Phew this took quite a while to read but I really love the discussion that is going on here.

I personally do like the idea of having some RPG elements with the traders and having you work up your way through some ranks to be able to perhaps buy weapons at all.

Weapons are supposed to be hard to get , exclusive. When you get a weapon, especially a good one, it is supposed to be your holy grail. We do not want enormous amounts of weapons in the ecosystem, we are a survival game after all.

Players do trade stuff even now and there is always the looming threat of a friend perhaps being somewhere in the bushes with svd pointing at you to steal your things. We almost had things like that happen in the office during playtesting days as well. That gives the thrill of being carefull who you trust.

The talk of traders is always circulating in the office. When we finally get to implementing it, we will sit down ,revise all the feedback and discussion from you guys and take a look at a lot of possible scenarios which might happen to make the feature fair yet interesting and also put a little SCUM twist on it.

Keep up the great discussion folks, we are watching from the shadows ;)

[Minnie]

Originally posted by Faustus:

I am not too fond of server bots where players can buy everything. The same way I wouldn't like to have arms traders in the safe zones. This only leads to Gameplay cycling around trader NPC's and gather trash you normally would just leave behind to sell it for something else.

Devs are planning to make safe zones community hot spots. Arms traders would guarantee that easily, but not in a very good way.

What I hope to see are safe zones with NPC's that have realistic day and night cycles, that will give you missions. Living and breathing places with their own rules, their own hierarchy, and where every NPC has to deal with his own stuff. Places where the player comes in as a nobody and has to work his way up in the hierarchy to sorta unlock new areas in the safe zones to talk with other NPC's.

Example scenario:

You are new on the island. Safe zones are protected by guards. Guards not only have to keep the gates secure but sometimes get tasks by higher-ups in the safe zone. Guards are lazy, so they send you instead, or else you wouldn't get into the safe zone. So. You have to go to the woods and gather X-Amount of mushroom XY, meat or other stuff for the kitchen before the guards would allow you entrance to the safe zone.

Like in a very good RPG. But on a small scale within the safe zones.

If you work your way all the way up like this you will at some point get other and more complicated / harder missions you won't be able to solve alone, but you have to get friends with specific skills to help you. Like single-player side missions that after some time lead into group missions where you can progress in the story.

There could be community buildings too like the kitchen I mentioned.

+1

[Dyerektor]

Originally posted by GamerBeast:

Phew this took quite a while to read but I really love the discussion that is going on here.

Hi Gamerbest you poor guy you had to read one my posts :D

Originally posted by GamerBeast:

I personally do like the idea of having some RPG elements with the traders and having you work up your way through some ranks to be able to perhaps buy weapons at all.

yea that was a really good idea bringing some missions to the game.

Originally posted by GamerBeast:

Weapons are supposed to be hard to get , exclusive. When you get a weapon, especially a good one, it is supposed to be your holy grail. We do not want enormous amounts of weapons in the ecosystem, we are a survival game after all.

im glad you feel like that, i agree as a rule of thumb it should always be approached by "Effort v Reward" getting top notch gear should be/feel challenging but rewarding for the effort.
guns unfortunately have too much influence in game at the mo and always been a hugely dominating factor. it's gonna upset a lot of folk if guns are not available to ready buy at the traders and that would be quite a daring and controversial move it would certainly be a daring break from the mould.

take Pvp for example all you have to do is add guns and the pvp happens automatically and takes care of it's self. interaction is a bit more complex and requires a social network be implemented which is no easy task. we can't just add a safe zone and expect people to interact cos a lot of folk who play so etc will just hot a safe zone do their thing and leave with next to no interaction with the random player. there's got to be reasons and an incentive to want to interact and speak to others.

one thing that would be a fair to compensate that would be an "Arms Repair" service a trader who repairs damaged weapons for players.

I imagine envision the traders to be more focus on being a social hub and be a huge step in introducing the foundations for a social network to Scum where players are encouraged to interact and a place to pay for services mainly, with a little bit of stuff for sale for example.

Arms repairs

Motor mechanics

Medical Treatment

Basic foods and snacks (rations)

Base elements and advanced crafted items (a trader who offers lower skilled players some advanced crafting skill level items for a price like a Metal Chest)

this would be huge in terms of creating a character and a big step towards the survival side of the game (which i think should be the main intention of the safe zone) you can focus the skill points on base building and driving for example and still have access to some basic advanced kill level items which your character normally would not be able to craft.

imo the safe zone should be more survival/Pve, interaction orientated

Originally posted by GamerBeast:

Players do trade stuff even now and there is always the looming threat of a friend perhaps being somewhere in the bushes with svd pointing at you to steal your things. We almost had things like that happen in the office during playtesting days as well. That gives the thrill of being carefull who you trust.

yes we need to always try and retain the Danger and tension and those elements of the unexpected and unpredictability which keep any game fresh and prolongs a games playability you always log in not know what's gonna happen

Originally posted by GamerBeast:

The talk of traders is always circulating in the office. When we finally get to implementing it, we will sit down ,revise all the feedback and discussion from you guys and take a look at a lot of possible scenarios which might happen to make the feature fair yet interesting and also put a little SCUM twist on it.

Keep up the great discussion folks, we are watching from the shadows ;)

it would be great if yous could implement a way that private server owners could enable players the ability to rent a shop in the safe zone. how this would work is.

private server admin would have an option in the server settings to enable the ability to walk up to an empty shop in the safe zone, click on the door and instead of a "claim door" option it would be a "Rent Shop" Option and if you already own a shop and are renewing the rent, it would then show a "Renew Rent" Option shop would come with some storage a few big boxes. storage would have to be fairly big but not unlimited.

there would be no locks to pick so no break in's only the shop owner and staff can open a closed door. when shop is open for business simply leave the door open so anyone can walk in

when NPC's come in it could then be an NPC who a player could then pay them a week or two's worth of rent in advance and they get access to a shop complete with locked storage which they will have to fill with their own stock. if you miss rent you can opt to get 3 extra days to pay it or you loose all the stock and the lease, much how you would lose an unmaintained chest, a undrivin car, or unmaintained base element, etc, and all it's contents.

if you paid rent on time it updates your ownership time automatically.

players could also appoint other players a role in the shop much like how you would join a squad, for example.

there would be

1, a shop owner

2. shop/medical staff (maybe restrict it to two or 3 people) which means 2 folk could go looting stuff for the shop while someone stays maintains the shops and dose business.

3. boxes in shops would only show to shop owners and staff and customers would only see the items when the shop staff take it out a box and put it down

a player would also need advanced level skills (or a mix of Advanced Skills) in the trade he or she chooses when taking ownership of a shop.

for example you would need Advance medical skills to run a medical center

Advance driving to run a motor mechanics

Advance Cooking to own a food store

Advanced crafting for a clothing shop (repairing worn clothing)

Advanced Shooting and Sniping to run a arms store

people are gonna ask what stops a shop owner going out raiding bases and using the stolen gear to sell in shop? that would be up to private server admin to allow that or not.

yous could maybe even implement it without NPC's and add NPC's in at a later date and add a rental option to some buildings doors in the safe similar to how you claim a door normally/

i think that could be pretty big specially for private server community's and Role Playing community's.

[HugeCucumbers]

There's nothing more frustrating than looking for guns and ammo for hours just to find that everything's been looted by a few people that hoard all the good stuff. What's worse is you can't compete with them even if you do find a crap gun in a random shed, as there's no ammo to be found because everything's been looted. I think servers should be able to choose whether or not to have traders, but not having traders will be damaging to the player base regardless.

[2ugly]

The devs need to add AI players that are dumped in several times a day for the players to have fun with. These NPCs would have different ratings for huge points if you kill them.

[Samurai]

If players can get permit from tech 1 to be trader in safe zone I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to sell anything they craft, or loot, including ammo and guns.

NPC traders yes, why not. I mean price for gun always can be like 10 000 fame points or crazy ammount of money or 100 kg of deer skin....
If some clan gather all guns and stash them, we need NPC gun traders or maybe not, dunno. Same goes for cars and other stuff we can't craft.

I just hope some traders will always use the same route for their caravans ;)

[Enkar]

As someone who had a blast in the Epoch days, i'd say let safe-zone traders buy and sell nearly everything