Sniping massive bullet drop?

[76561198119919596]

So i watched videos about sniping and noticed 2 things that was absolutly cancerous in battlefield series - very slow bullet speed (you can literally see it flies like an arrow) and high bullet drop (it starts to fall down 200-300 meters ahead). Wtf? Sniper rifles are designed to shoot fast so you don't have to predict where your target will be 3 seconds later (and certainly bullet there should fly faster than rifle or pistol ones, but still we can't see rifle bullets), and also it designed to hit targets at the very, very long range, so advanced sniper rifles should have very little bullet drop even in distance over 1km.

It will be yet another kind of game where "for the sake of ballance" simple rifles will shoot better and faster than sniper rifle, making people with some m16 being able to outsnipe the snipers on a very long ranges?

[LevaOpaki]

Muzzle velocity in our movie was around 600-800 m/s (depending on bullet type). But bullet like to slow down very fast. We are using G1 ballistic formula and everything is pretty accurate. https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/g1-g7-ballistic-coefficients-what-s-the-difference For example, bullet trajectoy is longer than 500m (at 500 meter distance) because bullet doesn't fly in straight line. So everything is like in real life. Except our bullet tracer is scaled up so you can see bullet better and correct next shot. This can influence your perception, same as in BF1. But measure distance and bullet flight time in our movie and you will see that everything is correct in our case.

Check out this real life situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqOqZBRZsj8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_59x6xvErA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hWJByUlbFY

[Deda Stojko]

Here you can find discussion about ammo type that was simulated on that particular video
http://steamcommunity.com/app/513710/discussions/0/1473096694442254070/

So everything that you saw is as real as it can be simulated. Most of other survival games use simplified bullet trajectories/physics.

[76561198119919596]

Thanks for the answer and the video, that explains a lot, but i think i didn't explain myself right. In bf main problem is that sniper rifle bullet starting to drop pretty soon, when assault rifle or pistol bullet DOES NOT. That leads to stupid situations when you aim at the target block ahead of you with ak, for example, and directly hitting it, when bullet from sniper rifle falls down before reaching target.

So will your rifles, pistols and everything else that is not suposed to be a long-range weapon have even more significant bullet drop (and spread) than sniper rifles? Will there be safe distance where assault rifles will be uneffective against sniper rifle fire, when shooting back at the sniper will be just a waste of bullets?

In other games it's very annoying when people shot you from the 5floors up roof with a damn pistol and not missing single hit, or when they shooting targets several blocks away from the assault rifle (that also has fast rate of fire) when sniper rifle are already suffering from the bullet drop.

Also, another question - will there be a cover and blind fire systems? That is a great features, but most games with tps tend to avoid them.

[Deda Stojko]

Weapons in SCUM use different calibers, a different type of ammo. All ammo is calculated the same way as SVD ammo, by using G1 ballistic formulas. This means that "weaker" bullets will lose energy faster than a sniper bullet that is designed to be used for eliminating targets on far distances. So answer is yes, in most cases (unless players are extremely lucky to manage to hit the right bullet trajectory) it will be really hard to kill the sniper on far distances.
If you take notice, in the Rifle and Sniping video you can see the comparison between an AK47 bullet and SVD bullet (https://youtu.be/WXOKs_WJuWQ?t=543), there you will see how AK47 has a weaker bullet that drops much faster than SVD's bullet.
Right now we do not have the blind fire system, but if the community wants that kind of combat we would gladly add it to the game.

[76561198119919596]

Good. I was concerned when i saw that one of the development compaines responcible for the game is the people who made one of the most arcadish shooter ever, but i really like what i am hearing. I wonder, will there be other realistic systems, for example - hight bullet spread if you run recently, like it is in sniper elite games? That is a great thing to prevent run and gun, to make people plan their moves instead of hoping that their reflexes will do the job right.

[Deda Stojko]

Yes, there will be bullet spread it will depend on many things, like the speed of movement, strength of character, bullet caliber, even stamina condition and heart rate...

[Vril]

Originally posted by LevaOpaki:

Except our bullet tracer is scaled up so you can see bullet better and correct next shot. This can influence your perception, same as in BF1.

You know what would be awesome and enhance tactical options and decision making -make bullets "invisible"/tracerless like in real life using standard FMJ ammo, and introduce tracer ammunition. You would then have a valuable tool for making corrections -BUT, it would make enemies to spot you easier, if you were shooting in low light condition, from a concealed position. That would force you to make a decision -do i risk missing my shots because i can't make easy corrections, or do i risk my position being compromised.

Or for those who are inclined to do some measurements, introduce the kestrel balistic computers where you insert ammo type, wind, humidity, temperature etc. etc. Like in ARMA 3 ACE mod. It would be great in COOP plays, as a spotter-sniper team, having friend making measurements,calculations and spotting with highmagnification binoculars.

And speaking of arma gun mechanics, will scum have penetration mechanics added to bullets? Something like in arma 3?

[Deda Stojko]

Originally posted by CthulhuTactical:

You know what would be awesome and enhance tactical options and decision making -make bullets "invisible"/tracerless like in real life using standard FMJ ammo, and introduce tracer ammunition. You would then have a valuable tool for making corrections -BUT, it would make enemies to spot you easier, if you were shooting in low light condition, from a concealed position. That would force you to make a decision -do i risk missing my shots because i can't make easy corrections, or do i risk my position being compromised.

Or for those who are inclined to do some measurements, introduce the kestrel balistic computers where you insert ammo type, wind, humidity, temperature etc. etc. Like in ARMA 3 ACE mod. It would be great in COOP plays, as a spotter-sniper team, having friend making measurements,calculations and spotting with highmagnification binoculars.

And speaking of arma gun mechanics, will scum have penetration mechanics added to bullets? Something like in arma 3?

For now, we have tracers for all bullets simply because we find it better for the gameplay, BUT if the community wants us to remove it, that will be quite easy to do. SCUM supports different types of ammo and yes, eventually we will add it.

Right now ballistics are estimated with sniping skill, numbers shown on the scope actually represent what your character feels about the distance, wind, and other parameters. Until we find a better way to present these data (or more realistic way) it will be like that. Adding Kestrel weather instrument shouldn't be a problem, I'll add it to the list.

Penetration ballistics are planned to be implemented in the next month or two, so we can say pretty confidently that there penetration mechanics will be in the game at the release date.

[Wraith]

Former Infantryman, so I've actually shot real bullets long distance. Hardly any game gets it right.
In standard marksmanship training with an M-16, you aim for the groin at 50 meters to hit center mass, because your sight is tipped up to get the arc you need on a bullet to hit a target at 300 meters (which takes training to do consistenly even in ideal conditions). And when you fire a tracer, you can watch the bullet travel to the target. And it drops like a rock as it goes...

So overall, well done. Most modern shooters are using Hollywood physics, which can make them very fun, but in the real world, the US armed forces fire hundreds of small arms rounds for every casualty that is inflicted upon the enemy. People arn't just popping off headshots and precision sniping on the move in real life, it's more about coordinated fire and flanking in order to get clear shots. Would be nice if a game actually reflected the fact that most people can't hit a moving target consistently in combat, even with training.

As a side question, is surpression going to be a thing? I've yet to find a shooter that does surpression well, but thats how real world firefights are done. Not sure how one would pull it off well though, as the most effective part of surpression is the enemies fear of getting shot, which is pretty mitigated in an online game.

[zeeb]

^ this guy has it.

[Kyorisu]

Originally posted by Wraith:

Would be nice if a game actually reflected the fact that most people can't hit a moving target consistently in combat, even with training.

May as well play a tabletop game then and roll dice.

[DarkRyder]

Drag and gravity works on bullets too.
True story.

[Dragons Hoard]

Originally posted by Big Yellow Duck:

Originally posted by Wraith:

Would be nice if a game actually reflected the fact that most people can't hit a moving target consistently in combat, even with training.

May as well play a tabletop game then and roll dice.

If I want to play a tabletop game that is what I will do. If I want to play a game where the physica are real and the possiblity of hitting someone depends on my SKILL not quick scope ability or aimbot usage I will play SCUM. Big Yellow Duck, I would suggest you play COD or BO. If not and you play this game I will most gladly accept your loot to add to my own.