Weapon Question

[Berserkerrep]

I have watched the videos on this game and can't wait to try it out. Love everything about the game so far but one thing is bugging me about the weapons. I looked and seen no other discussion asking about it so i wanted to check. Is the bullet velocity going to be fixed? in the videos you show the ak and dragonov shooting but the bullet velocity's were way off. the ak is around 700ms and dragonov is 800ms. But your showing they around 100ms-300ms. I can understand dimming them down a little but maybe 500-600. But that's way to much for realistic shooting.

[DarkRyder]

It's not 700m/s all the way, for 7.62x39, or AKM round, time of flight is about 3 sec to 1000m

[Berserkerrep]

Actually no the regular ammo for a dragonv rifle is a 7.62x54mm rounds that have a effective range of 800meters with the dragonov rifle. it travels 830ms so would take 1.25 sec to travel 1000 meters. now taking wind and other things as variables it might take 1.5 seconds for 1000 meters but not even 2 seconds.

The ak-47 is 7.62x39 which travels at 715ms and would take closer to 1.5 seconds counting other things like wind you might get 2 seconds but not 3 at 1000 meters. But even if the ak did take 3 seconds for 1000meters that could be ok for a game but 5+ is way to much.

[Necto]

Muzzle velocity =/= bullet velocity.

Also at 1000m range bullet trajectory is longer because bullets don't travel in straight lines.
Devs said they're using G1[kestrelmeters.com] ballistic formulas ingame so everything should be accurate as IRL.

[Berserkerrep]

So the muzzle velocity of a dragonov rifle is 830ms. again even with that formula the rifle will travel 800 meters in one second not 3+ like the video shows. at 800ms there showing 2.5 seconds to reach the target. at 1000 meter there showing 3.8, when it should be 1 for 800meters and 1.5 ish for 1000 meters(depending on weather and what the formula finds). so what they have is to high for a sniper like the dragonov. the formula does not effect that. The formula is fine for wind and other things but the guns are shooting way to slow. Now yes bullets dont always go completely straight they will start to drop but at 800ms it wont drop that far depending how you shoot.so yes bullets don't travel completely straight a lot of things change is trajectory. But the velocity of the guns seam way to low. look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYQjIag0Q8E it shows a 1500 meters shot of the PSL rifle (same velocity as a svd/dragonov almost the same rifle with a few things changed) with 4.2 seconds when it takes close to that for the 1000 meters on the game so big difference.

[Berserkerrep]

Now also in the video you can see where the formula would work well in wind and other things to change the trajectory and make it hard to hit someone at that distance which is great! i don't want it to be easy to hit someone that far. Specially with a new character that doesn't have the stats to shoot that well yet you wouldn't be able to hit anything really. I just want realistic shooting is all.

[Deda Stojko]

Hi... as Necto has stated ballistics in SCUM are as real as is gets in simulations. We had this discussion already when Rifle and Sniping skills video has been released. Two things were not included in bullet physics ( and we plan to add them eventually). The first one is rotation of Earth and the second one is influence of wind barriers. Both are pretty plain to add, we simply forgot about them. :) During EA we will add terminal velocity physics also, right now that is not so important but later it will be a cool thing to have it.

These are data we are using for SVD default bullet in the game
https://goo.gl/gfX8Q3

With that numbers we get exactly 2.15s as it is in our simulation (if shot isn't fired from elevated position). There are many other bullet coefficients that can be used, depending on the amount of gunpowder used, bullet tip type and drag it makes while travelling towards the target. We use ballistic coefficient for standard SVD ammo (57-N-323S) but there are also rounds with better BC, for example our is .374 by default and you have .574 rounds ( better aerodynamics)...

You can see more info about that SVD's ammo types here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9754mmR

Good thing is that all BC data can be changed in the game, so we can add any type of ammo with different bullet drag and everything will work perfectly because we just let physics to control the bullets. One more good thing is that it will be probably impossible to create aim bots for this game because of complex trajectory.... within 100-200m bullets travel almost in the straight line and our guess is that majority of gun fights will be in that range... ballistics are more useful for sniping from long distances..

[Deda Stojko]

hmm Steam won't allow us to publish the link to shooting calculator site.. So to read more, check out this video on Devolver FB page, find the first comment.. there it is
https://www.facebook.com/DevolverDigitalGames/videos/972553062848187/

But I guess you understood what I've said, there are faster and slower bullets than the one we have used, all of them can be added in the game.

[Berserkerrep]

Using the G1 formula on a 7.62×54mm regular bullet no armor piercing or anything else. the graph shows 1000 meters it will travel that distance in 1.47 seconds without wind or anything else. So if you simulation is showing 2.15 with probably a few variables then that's perfect its right on the money pretty much! Just was concerned because the video you linked showed a much longer time then that. So i'm glad it wasn't 3+ seconds but actually have 2.15 ish in simulations.


That's all i was worried about but if your getting 2.15 around that then that's perfect. Also very glad to hear about no aim bots.

As for having different ammo types in the game. I might put them in if i was you but make they rare. I assume from the other videos you find loot almost everywhere on the map. But i would make armor piercing or different types of rounds that are more powerful a rare find if you even put them in i would be ok with just regular type of ammo for all guns.

[Deda Stojko]

Originally posted by Youngfeller:

Using the G1 formula on a 7.62×54mm regular bullet no armor piercing or anything else. the graph shows 1000 meters it will travel that distance in 1.47 seconds without wind or anything else.

If you go to google and enter "shooters calculator 7.62x54r" you will get data for 7.62x54r LPS round, but that is not the same bullet we use in the game.

We are using following ammo type:

"57-N-323S
A conventional steel-core bullet designed to engage personnel and weapon systems. The bullet has a steel core and has a ballistic coefficient (G1 BC) of approximately 0.374 and (G7 BC) of approximately 0.187. The tip has no distinguishing colour. It can penetrate a 6 mm (0.2 in) thick St3 steel plate at 520 m (569 yd) and 6Zh85T body armor at 110 m (120 yd)."

You can check it out here on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9754mmR

If you enter in shooters calculator following data you will get the right info about the bullet type we use in the game:
Ballistic Coefficient:0.374
Bullet Weight:147grains
Initial Velocity:2723 fps
Zero Range: 1100 yards
Chart Range: 1100 yards
Chart Step Size: 50 yards

7.62x54r LPS is a faster round, it has less drag (it has BC .547). We can add that ammo eventually and traveling speed will be the same as shown in shooters calculator. It's just physics :)

What is shown in video is correct, bullet there travels exactly 2.15 seconds (on the clear weather part, not the part where the rain and wind influence the trajectory), it just seems that it travels longer because we resize the bullet trail with distance so that you can get better idea where the bullet has landed.

[Berserkerrep]

Sounds good if we are getting those speeds then everything is ah ok. Can't wait to try this game out!

Also i know its early but i assume we are getting all kinds of different guns? like russian,american,canadian ect.. or is the location set to a place in russian so we mostly just get russian weapons and other nato guns are just rare drops? just curious.