Once Express & Freight trains are unlocked, when do you use (and unlock more) Mixed trains?

[TheGreenFellow]

I like to find a 'use' for all available tools a game presents me, in games like these; but I'm struggling to figure out when to use a Mixed locomotive.

Are they best just as a 'temporary' train to build new connections to more cities early on, until I take the time (and money) to set up 2 stations + dedicated express & freight tracks (and adjustment of the lines in turn)? It kinda seems to me like it's easier to just aim for setting up express + freight from the start and save myself the time and effort later of converting everything.

Are Mixed trains worth using for flat and low-use freight tracks, to benefit from the higher speeds? Between cities, it seems like freight lines often involve more stopping/starting, so wouldn't Freight locomotives still be best on heavily used tracks?

And what about Express routes? Under "Manage Train > Elevation", the green line seems like it offers an indicator of how suitable a locomotive is for that route - but I don't know how, looking at that tool, at what point I should want to change to a Mixed or even Freight locomotive for passengers/mail? (Of course I can pay attention to the slope when laying the tracks, and if I know it's like 10%+, obviously Freight will be best, but I might not always memorize that.)

Any tips of how to figure this all out with more than guesswork?

[Saulius]

Mixed locos usually are spine of the fleet. Freight mainly for hilly tracks. In some scenarios I used only freight. Express are rare in my playthroughs.
I never do dedicated express lines specifically except game tasks ask do do so. Because at the start you can't afford dedicated express lines, there are more important things -connect and grow cities, open right industries etc. Later in mid or late game money are rolling quick enough so you don't care about this extra cash.

[mbutton15]

'Mixed' locos are about all I ever use these days !!
Also these days, I never run passenger/mail only routes between cities. As I expect my inter-city routes to carry freight as well as passengers, I stick with 'mixed'. I do still get express rating with this method.

As mentioned above, if specific 'express route' tasks pop up them I might consider an express loco. But I usually go with the biggest tractive power on my express routes (to combat gradient) !!

I also never bother with splitting passenger/mail from freight tracks. But I know other players like to do this.

(edit - typo)

[TheGreenFellow]

Originally posted by mbutton15:

'Mixed' locos are about all I ever use these days !!
Also these days, I never run passenger/mail only routes between cities. As I expect my inter-city routes to carry freight as well as passengers, I stick with 'mixed'. I do still get express rating with this method.

As mentioned above, if specific 'express route' tasks pop up them I might consider an express loco. But I usually go with the biggest tractive power on my express routes (to combat gradient) !!

I also never bother with splitting passenger/mail from freight tracks. But I know other players like to do this.

(edit - typo)

Yeah, I'd say I'm one of those players - because I like making use of the mail/dining/fridge cars, respectively.

I can see how the "mixed" locomotives are best if you're planning on keeping things simple with "Automatic" routes.

I'm hoping to find a purpose for them while also splitting passenger/mail/freight, though.

[TheGreenFellow]

Originally posted by Saulius:

Mixed locos usually are spine of the fleet. Freight mainly for hilly tracks. In some scenarios I used only freight. Express are rare in my playthroughs.
I never do dedicated express lines specifically except game tasks ask do do so. Because at the start you can't afford dedicated express lines, there are more important things -connect and grow cities, open right industries etc. Later in mid or late game money are rolling quick enough so you don't care about this extra cash.

Well, maybe I can give an example - right now I'm playing the full "US" map with territories turned on, 1830-1930, and started in Washington (birthplace of rail, right? or close enough).

I'm now in the 1840s, and I've only worked on the 4 cities available in that initial territory. I've bought up all the industries and businesses and expanded them to meet city demand, I've grown all the cities, and I've bought so many trains that I'm struggling with finding ways to efficiently route all the traffic.

The upshot is that it's been immensely profitable, especially in the freight/industry sector, and I'm seeing bigger returns in mail/passengers now that my 4 cities have grown in turn - I've had to buy more and more passenger and mail trains, respectively.

The way I set up my passenger mail is I do city to city only with passengers, and then a full A-B-C-D-C-B-A route with mail (since mail has a fixed rate of generation and demand for every city, it's a great candidate for multi-stop routes).

So for me, the majority of my fleet are just freight locomotives hauling pure freight, and then express locomotives are hauling pure passenger or pure mail (and these have all gotten the "Express" rating; I only bother with customizing the crew for the mail trains, and just make sure I have the right conductor for the passenger trains).

In a sense, I've "built tall" rather than "wide" - so is that why I'm not finding much use for the "Mixed" locmotives, do you think?

[dasaard200]

HOO, BOY !!, a variable toughie dependant upon scenerio goals .
My scenerio has goals of connecting 25 rurals, of which 7 need to be cattle, protecting 'your' territory against competitors; and growing cities (10+ ?) to 60,000 or more, plus 72 trains ... yeah, it's the Denver hometown, 1830-1930 .

I'd decided to alter Adekyn's "rapid expansion" theory by spacing out the dates of launching the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc., by about a month; to get the full amount of PAX and mail .
Here we toy with speed versus distance :
Denver > Cheyenne alone will get 'clogged' up in 2 months at full loads, per round trip ;
Denver > Raton gets clogged up in 2-3 trips ;
ditto for Cheyenne or > Denver ... so what can Denver do to max out its PAX/mail output ?
It ALTERNATES new trains between Raton and Cheyenne; while Cheyenne and Raton push out their monthly (2-3 trains) > Denver !, as small money rolls in .

A few months later, track building targets North Platte, until it gets double tracked from Denver OR Cheyenne ... which can easily afford 4-5 express trains from North Platte > west, and vice versa; before turning back to North Platte ... HOT DAMN !!, up to 9-10 fully loaded express trains (max PAX/mail) EACH WAY, using the slowest engine .

Express train : outbound gets max PAX/mail; return brings back NOTHING .

i'M DOING A TEST RUN, as the Doctor (and his discount), and 2 (not 3) opponents .

So as tech points are used, I've hit diminishing returns due to the next faster engine; thus more track building, and rerouting some trains to new targets, OR picking off Grain and Cattle stations to feed your folks ... as small middle money rolls in .
You may want supply towers, so reserve $150K-$300K to keep many trains in the field .

25 'rural' stations at $40,000 = $1 Million, City stations start at $40,000 and UP, and connecting track = $ OUCH !!!

I have 48 trains {40 express/8 freight}, and level 1 'rurals' yields [after exausting existing stockpiles] SUCK (0.9 to maybe 4-ish/month), so gathering the wherewithal to grow Cities is going to be a pain .

I'm netting $100-$150K/month, and the 4 Cities in the Dakotas are unclaimed, but I'll get them all .
Buying and upgrading 'rurals' tales BIG MONEY .

[dasaard200]

Between June'38 and May'39, I saw an income drop due to having 10 fully loaded trains waiting to service Denver from the south, almost to Raton !!
<Gotta DO something about this, NOW>, but how ? Hmmm ... I could reroute some of my express to other cities (like Raton > Dodge City, or Cheyenne > North Platte/ Rapid City, to take the pressure off Denver; to ease the load on the SPINE [Raton, Denver, Cheyenne, and Casper] of COLORADO .
Double tracking from Denver will be costly, but do-able, allowing Track 2 of cities to get used .
Yeah, I'm rambling; an idea just hit me .

With Denver 2 station, you could 'back door' some of this traffic AROUND Denver, and eventually building up to Raton 2, Cheyenne 2 ... on the left [west] side of the 'spine' for hot rod expresses and freight from SW of Santa Fe .
leaving the right [east] side to eastern freight and expresses ... could work .

[Maxim]

Similar to what Dasarrd200 says.. many variables, many players choose different methods for different scenarios.. and so keep in mind, whichever "CEO" you choose can have bonuses, so the fat lady enhances profits from passengers and mail.. but not all scenarios let you choose which character youre going to use.. :)

[dasaard200]

On 17th December,1841, I spent many tech points on Dining cars; so now I can officially toss in my 2 cents worth :
1] @TheGreenFellow has been growing Cities on an even keel, pushing Freight with a few high yield express types; I don't know his scenerio, but it sounds good .

2] I've been on a slash-and-grab run, using a 'pure' express idea to "get while the gettin's good" and a mix of N.B.Forrest's "git thar firstest with the mostest" approach .

Not quite 'yahoo's running wild', but close enough to pure CARPETBAGGERS ... <<YEE-HAW !! >> .
This is also a learning run, fighting off the General and the thug; figuring out how to thwart their incursions into "my" turf .

3] My method of early express only does drag down big bucks; but my cities grow slowly ...
I did have to connect 7 cattle places, all the way past Witchita and Omaha to do that .
(Better than $1-2 Million) .
Buying access to 'rural' spots has had to fit in with rails, trains, opponents and INCOME .

4] Now that the "Wide World of Track" is nearly over, {Fargo is still unclaimed} more of my attention is focused upon linking Cities to rural networks .
Choosing WHICH city(s) to grow fast depends upon WHAT rurals are closest in combinations . I have 6 Beer and 7 Meat cities, scattered ALL over the place, so I want to BUY these rurals to get into serious growth .

5] Train Growth : I've about some 66 trains; 50-ish express, and a growing number of freight; 72 trains are good for a Gold check mark, I'll pass that in 1842, easily . I figure
that 72 Freight might do it . I'll be happy when I can tech up to REFRIGERATED WAREHOUSE !!

6] A mixed fleet of Freight engines WILL get you where you want/need to go; those 'hot dog' express trains do have their place, but you can tech past those ...
Go ahead and set up their own double tracks to avoid the wreckage .

[dasaard200]

As of 30th June,1842, I have 66 trains running : 53 express and 13 freight ; by the end of the year 1842, I shall pass the 72 trains for the Gold check mark .

Entering the City growth period, I foresee a LOT of new double tracking for the new freight lines for targeted Cities and Rurals .
This includes resource monopoly's on scarce items like iron, coal, salt, wood, etc., to use area denial upon the thug mobster . [It sent many saboteurs my way, I'll let the bastard STARVE !]

The General and I have decided to share close rurals, even though track lines are complicated . Fun, actually, to figure ways to counter the wily old fox .

[TheGreenFellow]

In a nutshell it sounds like your situation is the inverse of mine, having lots of express locomotives and some freight. But it doesn't sound like you're using 'Mixed' ones either?

[Stryderunknown]

Considering Mail/Passengers cars weigh 10%-35% (depending on era) compared to freight cars, an exclusive mail/passenger train will requires a locomotive with only a third of the hp compared to a freight train to achieve the same level of acceleration.

Since people are mentioning that they are still able to achieve "Express" status, it suggests that perhaps it's not just valued on the train type or the speed between cities but also competition. Since the competitors use mixed trains to do their intercity connections, they will never be as fast as a dedicated express mail/passenger train.

[dasaard200]

Mixed trains ?, not just yet [if ever] ; they seem like a sloppy leftover train leaving a fire sale .

While we are setting up for warehouses and readying tracks for hot rod express types; we are also moving trains to 'flood' Cities with needed goods for sustained growth .
Of the 7 cities to reach 61000+ population, I've got 1, and 3 more in the 50K area to tip over the 61K+ mark in less than 6 months .

I had hoped to beat the 72 train mark by December 1842, but a few very good auctions were offered on the tech market, and some nearby real estate that I could NOT let go by .
In spite of good fortune, I've gotten another 13 trains, up to 79 trains rolling by 5th August,1843 .

[TheGreenFellow]

Well, at least I know I'm not alone in searching for a reason to used Mixed locomotives - at least once past the initial connections stage.

[dasaard200]

8 days and 22 years later, I can report that I've put stations in all 20 cities, reorganized the traffic jams on both sides of the SPINE of COLORADO [Raton, Denver, Cheyenne, Santa Fe, and Amarillo];
having added 2nd stations, changing routes, upgrading to Dragon engines, marking trains by specialty cars, and by NOT losing any cargo { pax, mail, or freight } !!

By my count of 110 trains, 66 are express, and 44 are freight; with freight growing quickly .
Now that most of track laying is almost over, income begins to steadily grow, as cities have new demands to fill .

An ongoing expense is area denial to secure MY riuals from that thug; 2 small stations and buying the rural outright runs into BIG BUCKS, however ...
there are 3 IRON on the map, I own 1 with 2 stations, have 2 stations on another, and the third is yet untouched .
The goal is to 'produce'[OWN] 12 IRON/month; so "thug proofing' becomes a needed expense . If the thug cannot grab rurals; it STARVES .

[chaney]

You generally can not lock competitors out of access to rural industries. They do not have a 2 Station limit. Shennanigans with track to exclude buildings near the industries would be one gamey approach.