Ace Difficulty is too easy?

[Mistress Spitfire]

I'm a long time veteran when it comes to the Ace Combat franchise, and I've been polishing up most of my medals before I do my Ace difficulty run, and after that go for each of the S ranks but I was confused once I saw that a drone's missile struck me and I only took 35%~ damage or so.

In the older titles, Ace difficulty put you on level playing field with all of the other planes, where just a single missile would be enough to down you, and a very small burst of AA fire or machine guns could do the same. Why doesn't the difficulty feel any different from Hard difficulty? Why have they made it so much easier than it was before? It'd be nice to see this changed, one of the biggest thrills for me was taking down the Arsenal Bird, no damage, machine gun only, I wish Ace difficulty could go back to being what it once was.

[Mistress Spitfire]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

The no damage challenge in 7 was far more difficult than in the older games for me. Have you ever ACTUALLY gone and tried it in the older games? Or even attempted it remotely recently?

No hard feelings but I'm pretty sure I know the holy trinity a little better than you do, pal.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

You end up in more situations with enemies swarming you, and you end up with the ai being over-aggressive and burning all their energy leaving themselves sitting ducks. The AI in the older games didn't burn all their energy in the attempt.

"Burning out"? What are you even talking about? At no point in any dogfight does any pilot 'tire out' and travel in a straight line, exhausted. The most that'll happen is the pilot takes too many Gs and faints, but do you really think any ace pilot would do that?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

Mihaly, Sol, the ADFX-10, and the ravens are ALL coded to use the same flight patterns that are specifically designed to have exploitable holes in them.

At what point do you think this is a good thing, or a realistic thing? No ace pilot would ever think to travel in a straight line while they're in a dogfight like that, they're just asking to be killed. The AI in the older games don't fly in straight lines, they 'keep looping' as you say, because those are evasive manoeuvres. The older games don't have any exploitable holes in them where they travel in a straight line, because the skill of a dogfight against an ace is landing a shot against them during these manoeuvres.

[JtDarth]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mistress Spitfire:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

The no damage challenge in 7 was far more difficult than in the older games for me. Have you ever ACTUALLY gone and tried it in the older games? Or even attempted it remotely recently?

No hard feelings but I'm pretty sure I know the holy trinity a little better than you do, pal.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

You end up in more situations with enemies swarming you, and you end up with the ai being over-aggressive and burning all their energy leaving themselves sitting ducks. The AI in the older games didn't burn all their energy in the attempt.

"Burning out"? What are you even talking about? At no point in any dogfight does any pilot 'tire out' and travel in a straight line, exhausted. The most that'll happen is the pilot takes too many Gs and faints, but do you really think any ace pilot would do that?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JtDarth:

Mihaly, Sol, the ADFX-10, and the ravens are ALL coded to use the same flight patterns that are specifically designed to have exploitable holes in them.

At what point do you think this is a good thing, or a realistic thing? No ace pilot would ever think to travel in a straight line while they're in a dogfight like that, they're just asking to be killed. The AI in the older games don't fly in straight lines, they 'keep looping' as you say, because those are evasive manoeuvres. The older games don't have any exploitable holes in them where they travel in a straight line, because the skill of a dogfight against an ace is landing a shot against them during these manoeuvres.

Let's see, first thing you do is make an insulting assumption. Saying 'no hard feelings' just makes it clear you know you are throwing out insults.
I've been playing AC since the arcades, and have played and beaten every AC except the PSP ones.
I never said 'burning out'. I said 'burn all their energy'. As in, basic dogfighting rules of don't burn all of your momentum in tight turns because then you are a sitting duck if the enemy has theirs remaining.

It is in fact a realistic thing for pilots to level out to regain speed, and subsequently build up more energy with which to continue the fight. I got news for you, constant looping is something no pilot would ever do, precisely because it will waste all the plane's energy and leave them with fewer available responses to threats. This is nothing new, and is something that has existed since the days of WW1.

No real pilot is going to be constantly pulling tight manuvers, especially if they are in a plane that has superior acceleration and energy retention compared to their competition. Not only do such manuvers heavily disorient, but they, again, do NOTHING to alter their position in the fight if the opponent manages to match them. In fact, such manuvers can WORSEN your position if the opponent adapts for them. Any time there is an opening, a pilot that is being pursued is going to try to either build distance or attempt a sudden, unexpected manuver, to try to force more options available so that they can get off defensive flying.

You make comments about dogfighting and realisticness that merely show that you have zero knowledge whatsoever of how planes actually fly. Of the physics behind things. Of the training pilots go through IRL. Evasive manuvers are not a good thing. They mean you are at a disadvantage, and the more of them you do, the greater you make that disadvantage. You end up wholly relying on the opponent, who is in a much better state, making a mistake that you are lucky enough to be in position to capitalize on.

To illustrate why constant looping is bad, go to an AC game from the holy trinity, get an opponent to start looping, then disengage, open up distance, then come back in. The opponent will be slow and low on energy, making them a sitting duck unable to do anything about new incoming missles, and getting toasted instantly.
Megalith and Farbanti from 4 are both good examples. Rather than getting mixed up in a furball, simply do high-speed passes. The enemy won't be able to touch you, and you will annihalate them with ease and complete impunity.

EDIT:
There's a common saying 'Speed is life'. Any given fighter pilot will agree with it. Frequently tacked on is a second statement 'Altitude is life insurance'

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Yes, Ace difficulty was way too easy, mostly because gunfire is still only 1% damage per hit. On ace, it was never the missiles that get you, was always the AA guns.

AI is a lot more aggressive on Ace, which is good, but c'mon. Eating 3 missiles in a Mig 21 and 100 bullets?

[Blue']

That's good and all but you're getting carried away from the main subject of this thread.
And I don't think this is the place for arguing about irrelevant mater.

Let's go back on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about that stupid Ace difficulty instead.

I MEAN 3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MISSILES, FOR REAL?!

[PrefersPlanes]

(Straightforward on-topic reply)

I am disappointed that ace-level AI don't even know basic fighter maneuvers.

- They fly in straight lines (note: meme link) too much.
- They make not enough effort to (angry USAF instructor voice) TURN! TURN! TURN! to get on your 6.
- Actually, when was the last time you had a fighter glued to your 6 in the ace campaign?

I thought Project Aces were aviation guys...?
Edit: Ah, I remember of course they (probably) are; at least in multiplayer, the tactics I'd learnt in more realistic titles apply surprisingly well here. Eeep, brought up mp in a sp thread...

[King Fossil]

The dumbest thing is when you take the regen part. You use that and you can get hit as much as you like as long as you wait a minute between hits. Really really dumb. Not like it costs you much either, since it's basically impossible to run out of body slots in single player, and you're allowed 8 different parts. Using one of them on regen to turn enemies into a joke isn't much.

[Young Erusean Officer]

The new fuel tank part boosts your armor a ton as well. Now its even easier to rush the radars in Faceless Soldier since you can ignore more missiles.

[FerSantander]

Yes it's too easy on ace. They removed the 1 missile and you're out, and even on ace every single AA bullet costs only 1HP roflmao.

At least your plane ain't repared when you land to rearm. I think that's the only thing they preserved for the "hardest" difficulty level.

These PA...

[devil make rye]

yeah, i miss the difficulty in AC7
it might sound like i'm being ironic or facetious, but i really do miss being able to get one-hit by a missile when i could do the same to the enemy. when it's about as easy to avoid damage in pretty much every single AC game, i like to be able to die on a single ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Vanacutt]

Yeah, it's too easy when you use end game plane, parts and convenient special weapon...

[Mistress Spitfire]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vanacutt:

Yeah, it's too easy when you use end game plane, parts and convenient special weapon...

I'm using a Typhoon in my current Ace difficulty run and I'm not struggling with it at all. I've gotten all S ranks so far and I've just gotten past Long Day.
It's too easy no matter what.

[King Fossil]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vanacutt:

Yeah, it's too easy when you use end game plane, parts and convenient special weapon...

You shouldn't have to use a low tier plane with no parts for the game to be challenging on the hardest difficulty. It should be hard even with good planes. Especially since you need to finish the game once to unlock ace, so you're pretty much guaranteed to have good equipment by the time you start it.

[Vanacutt]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mistress Spitfire:

I'm using a Typhoon in my current Ace difficulty run and I'm not struggling with it at all. I've gotten all S ranks so far and I've just gotten past Long Day.
It's too easy no matter what.

See, that plane still means a thing, but the plane doesn't change much when the player is good.
But I understand.
I was struggling a lot while playing on Hard, because of the high score timed missions, and I did not have the right plane nor was getting many MRP to buy a better one with more ammo, so I did restart the campaign on Normal.
that way I was able to progress.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von King Fossil:

You shouldn't have to use a low tier plane with no parts for the game to be challenging on the hardest difficulty. It should be hard even with good planes. Especially since you need to finish the game once to unlock ace, so you're pretty much guaranteed to have good equipment by the time you start it.

Yeah, but I thought every Ace Combat was like that when you get the last op planes, that would result on the game being "easier"
Like I said about the timed score missions, it was pretty easy when replaying on Hard/Ace with better equipped planes.

[Mistress Spitfire]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vanacutt:

I was struggling a lot while playing on Hard, because of the high score timed missions, and I did not have the right plane nor was getting many MRP to buy a better one with more ammo, so I did restart the campaign on Normal.

You see, that's the thing. Most of us think the other difficulties are perfectly balanced. Easy's that perfect soft-spot for people who struggle, normal's well balanced and Hard was a great experience trying to learn each mission for the first time as someone with much experience with the prior games. The game's balanced with what you have from the start, and I'm positive you could do no damage runs pretty easily with the starting planes on any difficulty.

The big issue is that I literally cannot tell the difference between Hard and Ace. You seem to take around the same damage, and the AI's barely any different. Like for real, when I started my Ace run and accidentally took damage on mission 3, I was genuinely confused thinking I'd selected Hard difficulty by mistake, or that the game was glitched, or bugged.

[Dylus]

I like the lax Ace damage for AC7, playing Zero and Unsung War and getting instagibbed by either Gault / Sorcerer or trying to outrun Grabacr Squadron in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ A-10 is brutal and often frustrating. I finished two of these games already so I can say that while AC7's Ace is a step down, it's really meant for the more casual dudes.