Is krieg's action skill BAR really bad at end-game?

[Rontemon]

In every youtube UVHM bossing video I have seen on youtube, no one ever uses Krieg's action skill.

They are either playing Krieg like a shooter or just using his regular melee attacks. There is even one video with him using his regular melee attacks in fight for you life mode o take down hyperius.

[WaxxFetish]

Bad, but not as bad as Gaige's action skill.

[NewTroll]

Most people late-game only use Kreig's action skill as a safety crutch. Hold onto it for when their health gets too low, so it will more than bring them back to full potential. But then if geared and specced in a certain way, it hardly ever even comes up. Can't (normally) use action skills in FFYL, so the window is kind of small.

Really it isn't an issue with Kreig's Action Skill being bad, as it is with the Psycho having the potential to be over-powered. Still, takes a lot of skill to do.

[Pyromancer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ronnie:

In every youtube UVHM bossing video I have seen on youtube, no one ever uses Krieg's action skill.

They are either playing Krieg like a shooter or just using his regular melee attacks. There is even one video with him using his regular melee attacks in fight for you life mode o take down hyperius.

Because although you get 500% melee damage in rampage you lose all special weapon melee bonuses like Law&Order and multiplier from weapon you use, also roid shield bonus isn't multiplied with this 500%. Because of this you might actually deal less melee damage in rampage than you regularly do with your melee gear

[Man_In_Suitcase]

Krieg's AS is pretty underpowered in UVHM if you're not using Rampage, I pefer Hellborn because it's more consistant. Still, I do find myself breaking out the axe though when I'm low on health, but rarely so tbh.

[H3X]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pyromancer:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ronnie:

In every youtube UVHM bossing video I have seen on youtube, no one ever uses Krieg's action skill.

They are either playing Krieg like a shooter or just using his regular melee attacks. There is even one video with him using his regular melee attacks in fight for you life mode o take down hyperius.

Because although you get 500% melee damage in rampage you lose all special weapon melee bonuses like Law&Order and multiplier from weapon you use, also roid shield bonus isn't multiplied with this 500%. Because of this you might actually deal less melee damage in rampage than you regularly do with your melee gear

But isn't the +50% melee bonus on weapons actually reducing the damage the regular attack does once you reach ~45 or so? The passive bonus is huge outside of BAR, at high levels. Melee gear can actually reduce your damage output eventually if that's how it works.

From the Wiki: "Krieg has a unique kind of melee-bonus without having a bladed weapon equipped. This bonus rises together with his level, but will be overwritten by the melee-bonus of a bladed weapon.[1]

From Level 45 on, a bladed weapon with a melee-bonus of +50% will weaken his melee attacks."

I use a Mania build Krieg, and the 500% multiplier in BAR does stack with the additional bonus from Krieg's other skills such as Release the Beast, as far as I know anyway, maybe Silence the Voices too but I'm not completely sure. I'm not sure about class mods or relics though. That could give at least 600% +any other skill based passive bonus during RTB, which can also be used to "pocket heal" when your health is low, and can be chained indefinitely if you let yourself be damaged to below 33% health again before RTB exits. That's a frankly insane damage output lol. Rough Rider's +20% damage reduction should also stack during RTB making for a 70% reduction, on top of the damage output and health recovery on kill.

[Missing Sequences]

I use BAR every chance I get with my lvl 61

[Pyromancer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von H3X:

But isn't the +50% melee bonus on weapons actually reducing the damage the regular attack does once you reach ~45 or so? The passive bonus is huge outside of BAR, at high levels. Melee gear can actually reduce your damage output eventually if that's how it works.
From the Wiki: "Krieg has a unique kind of melee-bonus without having a bladed weapon equipped. This bonus rises together with his level, but will be overwritten by the melee-bonus of a bladed weapon.[1]
From Level 45 on, a bladed weapon with a melee-bonus of +50% will weaken his melee attacks."
I use a Mania build Krieg, and the 500% multiplier in BAR does stack with the additional bonus from Krieg's other skills such as Release the Beast, as far as I know anyway, maybe Silence the Voices too but I'm not completely sure. I'm not sure about class mods or relics though. That could give at least 600% +any other skill based passive bonus during RTB, which can also be used to "pocket heal" when your health is low, and can be chained indefinitely if you let yourself be damaged to below 33% health again before RTB exits. That's a frankly insane damage output lol. Rough Rider's +20% damage reduction should also stack during RTB making for a 70% reduction, on top of the damage output and health recovery on kill.

Yes, +50% melee weapons aren't effective, but +100% law or +200% rapier would still be better - bare in mind that best roid shield bonus goes to 5-6 times base melee damage at same level. And roid shield bonus will be multiplied by bladed weapon so it will be (base+roid)*2 for law and heal for all damage dealt, but with buzzaxe it will be (6*base+roid) and heal by kills.
That's what the difference is - bladed weapons are multipliers for both base and roid shield taken together. Also your special weapon bonuses like healing by Moxxie's guns are gone since buzzaxe replaces weapon.
Since you use rough rider and not love thumper, order or terramorphuos hide you are definitely better off with rampage, if you switch to one of those it's worth running a compare what works better then.

[H3X]

I've not gotten around to grabbing myself another love thumper yet or order for that matter, Had a love thumper briefly when leveling but switched to closer leveled roid shields eventually and the Rough Rider when I came across it. I'll definitely give them a go and see how it works out :)

I enjoy experimenting with different playstyles, it's part of the fun of the game and one reason I keep playing. Krieg definitely took a little getting used to but Mania is great fun once got the hang of things. Might try a Hellborn build at some stage, it looks.. interesting.

[OKMB]

I invested in the tree that mutates you into a Mutated Badass Psycho. I decimate the battlefield as Krieg.

[A Slipstream Sloth]

I use it often, but it falls off in certain boss fights(where the sustainability of being able to kill adds to keep healing and building bloodlust stacks in a mania/Bloodlust build are harder). Definitely doesn't work too well on 'raid bosses', as do many other specs and abilities in the game. Whether you can actually melee a boss isn't really a problem if you're really good with the axe toss(sniping Rakk on the Warrior to heal, XD). Heck, my first time killing the warrior on UVHM was with Release the Beast. However, release the beast scales less with gear than pretty much any other build out there, so you can tell 'really endgame' when people start doing said boss run videos, other legendaries and what not pass it up.

[tutzdes]

BAR is a good way to melee things and heal while keeping a relatively safe distance.

Still at is more of panic button rather than bread and butter like Maya's skill is.