Who's the real bad guy here? (possible spoilers)

[H3X]

The more I play of this game the more I think there's a real sense of ambiguity about the plot and setting. Especially in Hero/Villain terms, it doesn't quite fit, in my opinion.

What if the reason Jack refers to you as the bandit villains, is because as far as the corporation is concerned you are? Sure, a soulless corporation crushing the life out of the planet isn't exactly a good way to have things, but then, neither is having roaming groups of psychotic axe wielding criminals killing off everything in sight (the "real" bandits), or a group of mercenaries killing off your staff left right and center (the vault hunters).
Look at things that point to this:

1) The vault hunters are being lured out and killed by Jack's cronies, possibly on the basis that they could be a threat to him if they band together.

2) Hyperion soldiers are tied up and used as target practice in back of Marcus' shop in Sanctuary. Not a very heroic thing to do.

3) At least the original four vault hunters, if not the newer ones too, had previous bounties that weren't Jack's doing, as a result of things that happened before they came into contact with Hyperion.

4) The Crimson Raiders are the remnants of a military force from the first game that went rogue, rebelled against the takeover Jack was trying to achieve and set themselves up as a resistance movement. But the plans to liberate Pandora only stretch as far as stopping Jack, not the bandits and raiders, or securing peaceful life for the other citizens of Sanctuary or Pandora.

5) Marcus himself (your "ally") supplies the bandit and raider groups with weapons, adding to the unrest and the dangerous nature of the place. The bloodshots even "worship" him as the Gunbringer.

6) Whether Hyperion are tyrannical and destroying Pandora or not, plenty evidence can be found that the other corporations are no better between the plot & DLC of the first game, and echo logs in BL2. (Atlas, Dahl, Jakobs at least if not more are all painted in bad light between those). Hyperion's actions seem "normal" judged against these.

Against this idea there's these:

1) The original vault hunters were being manipulated into opening the vault by Jack, making everything that happened a result of his scheming.

2) Angel lies to the vault hunters (all of them) but has a crisis of conscience and ends up helping them, because she thinks it's the right thing to do.

3) The Hyperion corporation is all but destroying the planet with its mining operations.

4) Jack's overall plan is to awaken the Warrior to take over Pandora for him, and who knows what next.

I think it's a grey area really, as both sides have their bad points, and plenty of them.

[Ashe]

Yeah, I've always considered the playable characters in BL to kinda be anti-heroes.

[Ashe]

Part that annoyed me the most was Control Core Angel. I actually felt really bad for Angel and Jack here and didn't even want to destory the eridium injectors but alas, the game forces you :/

[H3X]

Yeah I felt bad for them too at that point, though in a way because Angel sacrifices herself to try and stop Jack from making things worse for Pandora, it's one of the few genuinely selfless acts in the storyline I think.

[Quinch]

The game tells you, right at the very start.

This ain't no place for no hero.

[Burusagi]

The irony is of course that if Jack hadn't tried to kill *insert your character here*, *insert your character here* would not give a rat's behind about Hyperion or Handsome Jack.

Not until it is made personal. It is all about revenge, not being the knight in shining armor.

[Quinch]

Pretty much. Of course, Jack needed {sort of? Lotsa gameplay-induced plotholes, but best not look too closely} you to sabotage Sanctuary so he could focus on Eridium mining - the plan would have worked completely if Lilith hadn't still been in play.

[Missing Sequences]

I suppose its a grey area if you believe all the hyperion propaganda as truth.

Then again, people watch the news on TV every night.......

[Iron Chef Lucas]

The game definitely adds some hero-type qualities to Jack he evens calls himself a hero on many occasions) but if you pay attention, you'll definitely realize that he's no hero. His killing of Helena Pierce, his brutal torture of Tannis, and his treatment of Angel really killed all empathy I had for him.

[Burusagi]

What "hero-type qualities"....?

[Iron Chef Lucas]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

What "hero-type qualities"....?

His desire to make Pandora a peaceful place and his fierce protection of his daughter.

[Missing Sequences]

Originally posted by IronChefLucas:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

What "hero-type qualities"....?

His desire to make Pandora a peaceful place and his fierce protection of his daughter.

Sort of like how Vader promised to "bring order to the galaxy" ?

Defend his daughter, or protect his asset?

heyooooooooooooooooooooo

[Iron Chef Lucas]

I can see that you have no empathy and can't see thigns from other points of view, so I won't bother arguing with you.

[Missing Sequences]

Originally posted by IronChefLucas:

I can see that you have no empathy and can't see thigns from other points of view, so I won't bother arguing with you.

Hitler wanted a better Germany. Was he an unsung hero? I guess to some.

I apparently can see things from more perspective than the one spoon fed by a propagandist.

heyooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Quinch]

Originally posted by IronChefLucas:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

What "hero-type qualities"....?

His desire to make Pandora a peaceful place and his fierce protection of his daughter.

A graveyard is peaceful. That doesn't make it a place you want to stay at.

As for his daughter, keep in mind that by the time you reach her, he's put her far past the point of "fate worse than death". He wants to keep her from dying, and he wants her to charge the key for him - everything else, her freedom, her comfort, a lack of constant agony is not even secondary, it doesn't even register.

[Missing Sequences]

Originally posted by Quinch:

Originally posted by IronChefLucas:

His desire to make Pandora a peaceful place and his fierce protection of his daughter.

A graveyard is peaceful. That doesn't make it a place you want to stay at.

As for his daughter, keep in mind that by the time you reach her, he's put her far past the point of "fate worse than death". He wants to keep her from dying, and he wants her to charge the key for him - everything else, her freedom, her comfort, a lack of constant agony is not even secondary, it doesn't even register.

HAVE YOU NO EMPATHY SIR??!?

heyoooooooooooooo