Anarchy

[Rufus]

Ok, so I'm playing through the game for the first time (yeah, I know, but I was waiting for a deal on the GotY edition) and I'm playing as Gaige. I've had a look through the discussions and a brief glance at a few guides here on the hub and everyone keeps talking about anarchy. Now I've looked through the skills and the entire Ordered Chaos tree looks pretty crap; so much so that I've completely ignored it. The skills also don't mesh well with skills on the other trees and the weapons I'm using.

The question is: am I really screwed if I don't use anarchy? Everyone seems to think it's important but honestly that entire tree doesn't seem worth the effort and I've been doing fine so far without it. Is that likely to come back to bite me in the arse later on?

[WaxxFetish]

up to one degree deviation from where the reticle/crosshair is per each -12% accuracy

[Al Iguana]

yeah, it basically means if you want to shoot them in the head, aim for their feet. or the ground in front of them, because the bullet(s) are going to go anywhere in that > general direction. Which is why anarchy without Close Enough is a bit pointless. (and a good ricochet gun, you get the guns richochet * close enough richochet which creates a killing cloud. Add some nthDegree and everything in front of you is in for a bad time by the time you get to 400 stacks+. Assuming the recoil on your gun doesn't have you shooting at the moon by that point lol

[ShinkuTear]

In a thread about Badass Tokens, stuff like the -x% Accuracy from Anarachy isn't actually altering Accuracy so much as it is altering Spread of the gun. I can't find the thread, or the exact formula that was given... But for what I vaguely remember, it went something like...

Spread = (100 - Weapon card accuracy) / Player Accuracy... and something about Recoil somewhere...

Basically, stuff like Badass Token Accuracy, class mods, Accuracy changes from Skills like Anarchy, other stuff I am forgetting... those mess with Player Accuracy. Anything beyond the -100% Accuracy from stacks of Anarchy still applies, as it is making the Spread larger still.

As a side note, in theory, enough Badass Tokens into Accuracy can actually visably counter the accuracy loss from Anarchy, which also means that, in theory, Gaige can become highly accurate even at 600 Stacks, AND hit like a freaking nuke.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by ShinkuTear:

Basically, stuff like Badass Token Accuracy, class mods, Accuracy changes from Skills like Anarchy, other stuff I am forgetting... those mess with Player Accuracy. Anything beyond the -100% Accuracy from stacks of Anarchy still applies, as it is making the Spread larger still.

As a side note, in theory, enough Badass Tokens into Accuracy can actually visably counter the accuracy loss from Anarchy, which also means that, in theory, Gaige can become highly accurate even at 600 Stacks, AND hit like a freaking nuke.

at -1.75 per stack, 600 stacks would be -1050% accuracy. thats gonna take a ton of badass tokens considering its only .4% per token and it takes like 10-15 tokens before you even see the option to raise accuracy 1 time

[Habertod]

You only need Anarchy in OP8.
In the time before, u can use the Bee-Shield and the Sand Hawk, or whatever u want.

But in OP8, only Anarchy make the dmg that u need for it.

[BigFatJuicyMonkeys]

My god I started UVHM yesterday at lv. 53. The build I had made progressing through so freaking satisfying. I did die, but only as much as I did the first time I played. I went down so many tiems but my gear combos brought me back up so quickly. Enemies one shot and break my shield and put me at very low health, then the Black hole activates, dragging enemies to me and giving them a short stun time from the effect of being dragged and gives me enough ttime to equip the Rubi without being hit and losing the last of my health. The nova blast hitting everyone dragged instantly restores all of my health and since the nova blast gets a kill, my shield goes back up too. That run was the one time I actually ever wanted to record any gameplay.

And then I killed Captain Flynt before turning in for the night and he dropped a Binary Thunderball Fists. :')

[Applepooh]

Please do not call gun magazines clips... You use a clip to load the mag. Learn your gun parts.

[WaxxFetish]

On pandora you're using a bore to load a butt :)

[McCum Sauce]

Originally posted by Applepooh:

Please do not call gun magazines clips... You use a clip to load the mag. Learn your gun parts.

Wow somebody is making a big contribution to the discussion.

Anyway I was wondering would the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ work well with anarchy considering that it has almost has exact accuracy despite its relatively large mag size?

I found the stinger from the dragons work really well with gaige. The 50-60 mag size isnt a problem when you shoot all dem bullets that fast, It is almost overpowered with the bee but when you use the bee gaige is highly vulnerable.

[ShinkuTear]

The B!tch and Anarchy? Sadly, its Reverse Recoil isn't likely to beat out the accuracy penalty of having 200+ stacks, so it ends up being little more then an above average SMG with a Crit damage boost. An awesome above average SMG, but still.

Stinger is basically Close Enough from the Gaige BFF skill tree, in the form of a Vladof Pistol, so it works great with Gaige for obvious reasons. IIRC, Stinger has a % chance of causing the "ricochet into an enemy" that stacks with the chance from Close Enough, leading to higher overall Minimum Effective Accuracy as I tend to call it.

I could be dead wrong about the Stinger and its ricochet, if I am, please correct me x.x

On a similar note, Shadow of the Ancients, also from the Tina DLC, stacks with Zero and his... Two Fang(?) skill, the chance to fire twice skill.

In theory, Gaige, Stinger, 600 Stacks of Anarchy, 5/5 Close Enough(only if Stinger isn't a 100% ricochet chance), Shadow of the Ancients with a high double shot chance, and a Bee Shield, the damage potential would be insane. Safe as well, as you can fire around corners or from behind solid cover and be highly accurate and deadly... This needs some testing, for the sake of Science! and such.

[NewTroll]

Originally posted by OKTOBERFEST:

Anyway I was wondering would the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ work well with anarchy considering that it has almost has exact accuracy despite its relatively large mag size?

I found the stinger from the dragons work really well with gaige. The 50-60 mag size isnt a problem when you shoot all dem bullets that fast, It is almost overpowered with the bee but when you use the bee gaige is highly vulnerable.

The Stinger is one of my favorite weapons to use with Anarchy. Since it's Vladof, it doesn't have great Accuracy to begin with so you're not really losing as much using it. The damage isn't great, but when you have so many bullets flying in such a short amount of time, the multiple hits more than make up for it. And since it comes in every element, including slag, there's one for any occasion! And yeah, the high mag size is a downside to using it, but like you said you shoot so fast you'll still be reloading at a reasonable pace. Maybe use something with a lower count to start gaining Anarchy (I like the Unkempt Harold myself) and once you get to your preferable stack (pretty much anything over 150 for me) then switch to your Stinger of choice. But in all honesty, the BIGGEST draw to using the Stinger is just how easy it is to get your hands on one. If it had an actual RNG drop-rate like most everything else, then I wouldn't even bother.

As for the B!tch, I've never been a big fan on Gaige. For the most part the only SMG I use is the Slagga. I just find them too counter-productive with Anarchy. Little Big Trouble on the other hand... well... still not worth the hassle of getting.

[WaxxFetish]

Originally posted by ShinkuTear:

The B!tch and Anarchy? Sadly, its Reverse Recoil isn't likely to beat out the accuracy penalty of having 200+ stacks, so it ends up being little more then an above average SMG with a Crit damage boost. An awesome above average SMG, but still.

Stinger is basically Close Enough from the Gaige BFF skill tree, in the form of a Vladof Pistol, so it works great with Gaige for obvious reasons. IIRC, Stinger has a % chance of causing the "ricochet into an enemy" that stacks with the chance from Close Enough, leading to higher overall Minimum Effective Accuracy as I tend to call it.

I could be dead wrong about the Stinger and its ricochet, if I am, please correct me x.x

On a similar note, Shadow of the Ancients, also from the Tina DLC, stacks with Zero and his... Two Fang(?) skill, the chance to fire twice skill.

In theory, Gaige, Stinger, 600 Stacks of Anarchy, 5/5 Close Enough(only if Stinger isn't a 100% ricochet chance), Shadow of the Ancients with a high double shot chance, and a Bee Shield, the damage potential would be insane. Safe as well, as you can fire around corners or from behind solid cover and be highly accurate and deadly... This needs some testing, for the sake of Science! and such.

Stinger does have a 100% ricochet chance, it has the mechanics identical to Stalker. It does have 0% chance to ricochet towards the enemy as long as there's no Close Enough in process. It doesn't suffer from Close Enough damage nerf though, just like any other naturally ricochetting gun.

Also for Gaige, Social Actualizer usually > B!tch.

[McCum Sauce]

I found that the 3 weapons that worked with anarchy best for me are stinger (pistol, vladof, seraph), ravager (shotgun, torgue, purple), and tk baha's wave (shotgun, jakobs, unique/blue). However for these to work well i use close enough as it is almost mandatory for when you use anarchy at 200+ stacks.

Originally posted by WaxxFetish:

Originally posted by ShinkuTear:

The B!tch and Anarchy? Sadly, its Reverse Recoil isn't likely to beat out the accuracy penalty of having 200+ stacks, so it ends up being little more then an above average SMG with a Crit damage boost. An awesome above average SMG, but still.

Stinger is basically Close Enough from the Gaige BFF skill tree, in the form of a Vladof Pistol, so it works great with Gaige for obvious reasons. IIRC, Stinger has a % chance of causing the "ricochet into an enemy" that stacks with the chance from Close Enough, leading to higher overall Minimum Effective Accuracy as I tend to call it.

I could be dead wrong about the Stinger and its ricochet, if I am, please correct me x.x

On a similar note, Shadow of the Ancients, also from the Tina DLC, stacks with Zero and his... Two Fang(?) skill, the chance to fire twice skill.

In theory, Gaige, Stinger, 600 Stacks of Anarchy, 5/5 Close Enough(only if Stinger isn't a 100% ricochet chance), Shadow of the Ancients with a high double shot chance, and a Bee Shield, the damage potential would be insane. Safe as well, as you can fire around corners or from behind solid cover and be highly accurate and deadly... This needs some testing, for the sake of Science! and such.

Stinger does have a 100% ricochet chance, it has the mechanics identical to Stalker. It does have 0% chance to ricochet towards the enemy as long as there's no Close Enough in process. It doesn't suffer from Close Enough damage nerf though, just like any other naturally ricochetting gun.

Also for Gaige, Social Actualizer usually > B!tch.

The stingers bullets bounce once and the stalker bullets bounce multiple times. Also do all guns that have bounce affects take no damage reduction from close enough? Also stinger always has 100% ricochet chance but like the other person said it doesnt bounce in the direction of the enemy.