NEW EULA question

[Diviy]

Hi there,

so ehm ... yea so I just was reading (or died trying) the whole EULA regarding this whole bs. What I didn't find was a sentence like "If you click here, you allow us to spy on you".

Where is it? Can someone please exactly tell me where it says "Okay, now you're gettin' spied on buddy" in the EULA? Massive thanks!

[vee-kay]

Read the Privacy Policy[www.take2games.com] linked in their EULA[www.take2games.com]

They say clearly:

Depending on the Service or your activity, we collect information such as:
* your name,
* email address,
* phone number,
* photo,
* mailing address / zip code,
* payment or purchase information,
* age,
* gender,
* password,
* platform ID,
* software products played,
* survey data,
* geolocation,
* and the systems or platforms you play on.
We combine this information across devices that you use.

As detailed below, we share your information with:
* vendors that perform support and other services for us
* Take-Two group members
* advertising service providers and third-party advertising partners
* other third parties (e.g., for collaborative offerings, legal and safety purposes, in connection with the sale or transfer of a business or asset, and other purposes with your permission)
* other users, such as when you participate in open communities or events, or information published on leaderboards
* In the last 12 months, Take-Two has sold and/or shared unique identifiers, IP address, as well as Internet/Electronic Activity and Profile Inferences with third-party advertising providers to enable us to provide personalized advertising to you and others like you. We do not sell or share personal information about persons that we know are under the age of 16 without their (or depending on age, their parent's) consent.

[Deadly Dan]

Originally posted by vee-kay:

Read the Privacy Policy[www.take2games.com] linked in their EULA[www.take2games.com]

They say clearly:

Depending on the Service or your activity, we collect information such as:
* your name,
* email address,
* phone number,
* photo,
* mailing address / zip code,
* payment or purchase information,
* age,
* gender,
* password,
* platform ID,
* software products played,
* survey data,
* geolocation,
* and the systems or platforms you play on.
We combine this information across devices that you use.

As detailed below, we share your information with:
* vendors that perform support and other services for us
* Take-Two group members
* advertising service providers and third-party advertising partners
* other third parties (e.g., for collaborative offerings, legal and safety purposes, in connection with the sale or transfer of a business or asset, and other purposes with your permission)
* other users, such as when you participate in open communities or events, or information published on leaderboards
* In the last 12 months, Take-Two has sold and/or shared unique identifiers, IP address, as well as Internet/Electronic Activity and Profile Inferences with third-party advertising providers to enable us to provide personalized advertising to you and others like you. We do not sell or share personal information about persons that we know are under the age of 16 without their (or depending on age, their parent's) consent.

I don't understand how anyone can defend wording like this. Even if this would only apply to their newest games (I don't think it will, why should they limit themselves) how can you justify data collection on this scale in a f**king video game lol.

[vee-kay]

Note the especially dangerous statements:
"we collect information such as..
payment or purchase information, software products played, and the systems or platforms you play on"
"Take-Two has sold.. Internet/Electronic Activity and Profile Inferences, with third-party advertising providers, to enable us to provide personalized advertising"

This means TakeTwo reserves the right to spy on the user's financial activity, internet activity, electronic devices activity, etc. Yeah, they proudly admit they are spyware, and we all (especially the corporate shills and clueless gamers here) know there's zero reason for TakeTwo or any company to steal and all so much personal information... by kernel-mode unavoidable spyware!

[sokolov]

Originally posted by Deadly Dan:

I don't understand how anyone can defend wording like this.

No one is defending it, people are just fed up with others thinking that it applies to this game because no one is able to think for themselves or find out information on their own.

The series already fell off in BL3, the movie reinforced the fall and the hurdles that BL4 will offer'll likely finally give the series a resting place.

[Deadly Dan]

Originally posted by sokolov:

Originally posted by Deadly Dan:

I don't understand how anyone can defend wording like this.

No one is defending it, people are just fed up with others thinking that it applies to this game because no one is able to think for themselves or find out information on their own.

It applies to every product and service Take-Two has control over, otherwise they wouldn't have added this EULA update to a 13 year old game.
The only question is how strictly they're going to enforce it compared to their newer games.

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by Deadly Dan:

Originally posted by sokolov:

No one is defending it, people are just fed up with others thinking that it applies to this game because no one is able to think for themselves or find out information on their own.

It applies to every product and service Take-Two has control over, otherwise they wouldn't have added this EULA update to a 13 year old game.
The only question is how strictly they're going to enforce it compared to their newer games.

Don't underestimate TakeTwo. They didn't create this EULA and Privacy Policy for just upcoming BL4 game, they changed their central/common EULA and Privacy Policy for enabling such spyware behavior, so there's nothing stopping them from rolling it out to the older games/products if gamers accept this EULA (which includes the Privacy Policy link).

FYI, Capcom already rolled out similar nasty spyware (after changing their EULA and Privacy Policy) to all old games too. This is industry-wide tactic and I'm afraid more game publishers will follow suit, as only EU region seems to take customer rights and user privacy strictly.

[Mugiwara]

I honestly don't understand how clowns can defend this, they have literally included passwords in the list. There is so much that can go wrong with that, especially for people who are not cyber security conscious using the same password for all their accounts and such. Not to disregard all the other egregious insertions and the retrospective nature of this which is illegal in my country (and a number of others) for a reason...

[Q]

Originally posted by vee-kay:

Read the Privacy Policy[www.take2games.com] linked in their EULA[www.take2games.com]

They say clearly:

Depending on the Service or your activity, we collect information such as:
* your name,
* email address,
* phone number,
* photo,
* mailing address / zip code,
* payment or purchase information,
* age,
* gender,
* password,
* platform ID,
* software products played,
* survey data,
* geolocation,
* and the systems or platforms you play on.
We combine this information across devices that you use.

As detailed below, we share your information with:
* vendors that perform support and other services for us
* Take-Two group members
* advertising service providers and third-party advertising partners
* other third parties (e.g., for collaborative offerings, legal and safety purposes, in connection with the sale or transfer of a business or asset, and other purposes with your permission)
* other users, such as when you participate in open communities or events, or information published on leaderboards
* In the last 12 months, Take-Two has sold and/or shared unique identifiers, IP address, as well as Internet/Electronic Activity and Profile Inferences with third-party advertising providers to enable us to provide personalized advertising to you and others like you. We do not sell or share personal information about persons that we know are under the age of 16 without their (or depending on age, their parent's) consent.

LOL they pretty much sharing that info with everyone.

[Jet Chan]

Originally posted by sokolov:

Originally posted by Deadly Dan:

I don't understand how anyone can defend wording like this.

No one is defending it, people are just fed up with others thinking that it applies to this game because no one is able to think for themselves or find out information on their own.

IMO it doesn't matter whether or not the new changes apply to this game, the fact they're doing it with BL4 means at any time they can just decide to do it for BL1-3 +PS as well. Deleted the game because now I can't trust the game being on my system. I don't need kernel level anti cheat crashing my system when I'm in the middle of doing something

Also I just want to point out, companies don't waste money planning something they won't actually use. If they devised this new EULA, and spent the time retroactively applying it to all their games, they're GOING to use it. It's just a matter of WHEN they'll start using it.

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by Jet Chan:

Originally posted by sokolov:

No one is defending it, people are just fed up with others thinking that it applies to this game because no one is able to think for themselves or find out information on their own.

IMO it doesn't matter whether or not the new changes apply to this game, the fact they're doing it with BL4 means at any time they can just decide to do it for BL1-3 +PS as well. Deleted the game because now I can't trust the game being on my system. I don't need kernel level anti cheat crashing my system when I'm in the middle of doing something

Also I just want to point out, companies don't waste money planning something they won't actually use. If they devised this new EULA, and spent the time retroactively applying it to all their games, they're GOING to use it. It's just a matter of WHEN they'll start using it.

It's not even a question of WHEN. Such drastic abrupt EULA changes are typically done when the corporation has ALREADY started doing such malpractices, and their legal team hurriedly stepped in and forced the EULA & PRIVACY POLICY change to ensure the company doesn't get easily sued for those malpractices (some countries or blocs, such as EU, will still allow a company to be sued in courts irrespective of its EULA or PRIVACY POLICY, if its behavior is suspected to be in violation of the country/bloc's ethical code of conduct, laws, etc.)

[Dr. Wicked]

Oh but I'm afraid they won't stop at there.

Up next is retina scan, then biometric scan, lastly an explosive collar, and a chemical lobotomy to acquire full control of your being if you so desire to play their upcoming games.

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by Mr. Wicked:

Oh but I'm afraid they won't stop at there.

Up next is retina scan, then biometric scan, lastly an explosive collar, and a chemical lobotomy to acquire full control of your being if you so desire to play their upcoming games.

FTC Warns About Misuses of Biometric Information and Harm to Consumers[www.ftc.gov]

[Q]

Originally posted by Mr. Wicked:

Oh but I'm afraid they won't stop at there.

Up next is retina scan, then biometric scan, lastly an explosive collar, and a chemical lobotomy to acquire full control of your being if you so desire to play their upcoming games.

yeah i bet this sounds like a joke but it isn't thats literally the next step, i bet EA and Ubisoft would love this kind of things.

Imagine new EULA in 5 years saying you need to upload your IRL ID and retina, fingerprint and more data because why not? people were ok with this current EULA why publisher shouldn't ask for more?

[lon]

simple fix, just get a VPN and pirate their ♥♥♥♥ and play offline with mods

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by lon:

simple fix, just get a VPN and pirate their ♥♥♥♥ and play offline with mods

That extreme (and risky, due to chance of malware in the "cracks" for the game) approach can work with single-player games that can be played offline. But how will that work for multiplayer-only or multiplayer-focused games?

(As an example) See what Ubisoft did with The Crew game (a driving game, which arguably had the most realistic game-world rendering/depiction of USA ever in gaming industry). Ubisoft delisted The Crew, suspended digital sales, and shut down the game's servers. Not only that, Ubisoft revoked the licenses from players who had already bought The Crew, without providing any refunds to them, or any way to download the game files.

The license revocations were a slap in the face to the customers who had purchased the game, as Ubisoft was showing them they never "owned" the game. There was more outcry when gamers discovered that the game had unutilized programming for an offline mode.

Some customers filed a class-action lawsuit against Ubisoft, as they accused the company of misleading players into believing that their purchases of the game were permanent instead of buying limited licenses and for "falsely represent[ing]" that the physical copies contained the game's files instead of simply a key to unlock the DRM for the game.

Ubisoft, in its motion to dismiss the case, emphasized that there was no "unfettered ownership rights in the game" implied when a user purchased the game, and that the shutdown followed a notification period, following terms that were published on the game's retail box and in its digital EULA.

Net net, game companies can punish the customers who purchased the "services" marketed & sold as "products".

The only this bad attitude of the gaming industry will change if when customers speak en masse with their wallets.

e.g., CDPR was forced to refund customers after the spectacular launch issues fiasco for Cyberpunk game. But it bounced back with fixes and new DLC (Liberty City, as an overhaul and fix for the main game), and since then it's been selling the game at good discounts, so now everyone has a favorable opinion about the game and company. Similarly, CDPR's other famous game Witcher 3 went through similar release issues, but the devs pulled off miracles to fix and improve the game and gave us wonderful DLCs, so that game is now considered a masterpiece in its genre.

Bethesda also had the infamous "Horse DLC Armor" fiasco ("paid mods" debacle), but it listened to the backlash from the modding community and customers, and today the Skyrim game does have a paid mods section (Creation Club) but it's optional. And Bethesda still supports modding in a big way, so it still has world's largest and most prolific modding community (more than a million mods for Skyrim!!).

We don't really mind (in the long run) if companies make mistakes (we realise they are also businesses and have to struggle to compete against cut-throat rivals, pirates, cheaters/hackers, etc.), but at least they ought to learn from those mistakes, and improve to do better. We will then respect them.