Why are all weapons in BL2 so underwhelming?

[J-&Dre]

I enjoyed the hunt for crazy weapons in BL1 and trying them out, and see your enemies get melted into a pile of carbon was the fun part.

Borderlands 1 had millions of fun weapons. BL2 has none. Why is that?

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

Why are all weapons in BL2 so underwhelming? I enjoyed the hunt for crazy weapons in BL1 and trying them out, and see your enemies get melted into a pile of carbon was the fun part. Borderlands 1 had millions of fun weapons. BL2 has none. Why is that?

But they're not at all "underwhelming" ~ that's just your opinion that few players share. IMHO so far as just the stuff you find or buy or get rewarded as RAID Boss drops, many if not most feel these weapons increased in design & effectiveness from BL1 to BL2 to BL:TPS. The book's still out on the final two Gearbox BL series titles which still remain within their full release cycles, so we just won't know how these compare til +/- 2025.

[Nakos]

BL2 has plenty of fun weapons. It also has a more aggressive obsolescence system (like it or not), so you can't just pick up one gun and use it for 20 levels.

Personally, I enjoy the BL2 weapons a lot more than the BL1 ones.

[J-&Dre]

If there are any guns in this game that is actually any good, I have yet to come across any.

[J-&Dre]

Originally posted by Nakos:

BL2 has plenty of fun weapons. It also has a more aggressive obsolescence system (like it or not), so you can't just pick up one gun and use it for 20 levels.

Personally, I enjoy the BL2 weapons a lot more than the BL1 ones.

Well that is the main problem, I have gone 10 levels now without finding upgrades. I am still using like 15-20 level weapons because anything that drops is crap. How can I upgrade if I cant get an upgrade?

[Nakos]

Level is more important than color. Damage fall-off in BL2 works on level disparity. That applies to you, and to your gear, and it's much, much more aggressive than in BL1.

The game throws gear at you all the time. Most of it is useful. Yes, Legendaries are more "fun". But even common and uncommon quality gear is functional and useful.

Try a perspective changing run: White (common) quality gear only, no special ability points. It's a much more difficult way to play, but it'll rapidly teach you how valuable common quality gear is.

[J-&Dre]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Level is more important than color. Damage fall-off in BL2 works on level disparity. That applies to you, and to your gear, and it's much, much more aggressive than in BL1.

The game throws gear at you all the time. Most of it is useful. Yes, Legendaries are more "fun". But even common and uncommon quality gear is functional and useful.

Try a perspective changing run: White (common) quality gear only, no special ability points. It's a much more difficult way to play, but it'll rapidly teach you how valuable common quality gear is.

Are we talking about the same game here? I feel we don't as my level 19 epic SMG does more damage than even a level 28 rare/green SMG, It was pretty good at level 19 but now everything is a bullet sponge. I have no idea where you get all these fantastic weapons but I can't seem to find any.

[Nakos]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

Are we talking about the same game here? I feel we don't as my level 19 epic SMG does more damage than even a level 28 rare/green SMG, It was pretty good at level 19 but now everything is a bullet sponge. I have no idea where you get all these fantastic weapons but I can't seem to find any.

No, your level 19 legendary does not do as much damage as a level 28 rare. It doesn't even do as much damage as a level 28 common, (although it might APPEAR to from simply looking at the card).

The reason everything feels like a bullet sponge is because you're still trying to use a level 19 weapon at level 28ish. As I said above: Damage fall-off in this game works on level disparity, this apples both to you and to your gear. If you're fighting level 28 to 30 enemies with a level 19 gun, then you're getting a HUGE penalty applied to the base damage of the weapon.

Damage scaling in BL2: https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

Level is more important than color.

[J-&Dre]

I will tes

Originally posted by Nakos:

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

Are we talking about the same game here? I feel we don't as my level 19 epic SMG does more damage than even a level 28 rare/green SMG, It was pretty good at level 19 but now everything is a bullet sponge. I have no idea where you get all these fantastic weapons but I can't seem to find any.

No, your level 19 legendary does not do as much damage as a level 28 rare. It doesn't even do as much damage as a level 28 common, (although it might APPEAR to from simply looking at the card).

The reason everything feels like a bullet sponge is because you're still trying to use a level 19 weapon at level 28ish. As I said above: Damage fall-off in this game works on level disparity, this apples both to you and to your gear. If you're fighting level 28 to 30 enemies with a level 19 gun, then you're getting a HUGE penalty applied to the base damage of the weapon.

Damage scaling in BL2: https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

Level is more important than color.

This might be true but the game doesn't tell you this in any way and normally math easy to understand. So why does the game then, tell me that a level 28 rifle has less damage than the one equipped? Makes no sense to me.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754800571

[Nakos]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

This might be true but the game doesn't tell you this in any way and normally math easy to understand. So why does the game then, tell me that a level 28 rifle has less damage than the one equipped? Makes no sense to me.

That I can't answer. It's a design issue.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it's possible that the damage scaling was inserted as a way to "fix" the relatively flat damage of the BL1 gear. But that's just a guess. And why they chose not to give the player reliable information isn't something I know.

The design goal for Bl2, is that you'll constantly be discarding "old" weapons (that you've out leveled) and picking up new ones.

[Nakos]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754800571

Show me the card for the weapon you're comparing that to.

Also, you can press "E" to compare two cards side by side.

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

Originally posted by Nakos:

Level is more important than color. Damage fall-off in BL2 works on level disparity. That applies to you, and to your gear, and it's much, much more aggressive than in BL1.

The game throws gear at you all the time. Most of it is useful. Yes, Legendaries are more "fun". But even common and uncommon quality gear is functional and useful.

Try a perspective changing run: White (common) quality gear only, no special ability points. It's a much more difficult way to play, but it'll rapidly teach you how valuable common quality gear is.

Are we talking about the same game here? I feel we don't as my level 19 epic SMG does more damage than even a level 28 rare/green SMG, It was pretty good at level 19 but now everything is a bullet sponge. I have no idea where you get all these fantastic weapons but I can't seem to find any.

Well, there are some problems with that perspective. You haven't really reached a sufficient level or mode at which the truly great stuff becomes more & more available as you climb. Come back to tell us about your "underwhelming gear" when you hit level 65+ in UVHM where every weapon in your vault & inventory is an on or close-in-level Legendary Weapon so we can talk about allegations of "underwhelming~ness" ... .

[J-&Dre]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754800571

Show me the card for the weapon you're comparing that to.

Also, you can press "E" to compare two cards side by side.

Ah well, too late as used a few keys to get a leveled one, and sold the old one. Anyway I still have these. At face value, without knowing of this penalty, the level 21 is better than the 27 one.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754828466

[Mailer]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

I will tes

Originally posted by Nakos:

No, your level 19 legendary does not do as much damage as a level 28 rare. It doesn't even do as much damage as a level 28 common, (although it might APPEAR to from simply looking at the card).

The reason everything feels like a bullet sponge is because you're still trying to use a level 19 weapon at level 28ish. As I said above: Damage fall-off in this game works on level disparity, this apples both to you and to your gear. If you're fighting level 28 to 30 enemies with a level 19 gun, then you're getting a HUGE penalty applied to the base damage of the weapon.

Damage scaling in BL2: https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

Level is more important than color.

This might be true but the game doesn't tell you this in any way and normally math easy to understand. So why does the game then, tell me that a level 28 rifle has less damage than the one equipped? Makes no sense to me.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754800571

The problem is that the "Root"-family of Assault Rifles is a bit of an unfair comparison for damage, since it is one of the least damaging ARs, especially given that it is only common rarity. https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Root

Unbeknownst to what is actually being compared to, but weapons like "The Bane", which can also be identified in your inventory, is at that stage of the game practically obsolete. Past defeating the Bunker I would never recommend carrying weapons from that far behind in the game (even if it does have a nice crit bonus), and would instead recommend looting any uncommon or better rarity weapons that you can find in that same zone, albeit from weapon vendors or what-have-you.

Personally, I like to use the following generalization of weapon obsolete-ness when I play Borderlands 2:

White: Not even comparable and you should never have to use common guns unless you desperately run out of ammo in all other weapon types.

Green: At level 16 (as an example)
Blue: At level 15
Purple/E-Tech: At level 14
Legendary: At level 13 to 11 (in case it actually is a REALLY good legendary that stands on its own for a while)

All of the four examples above are, imo, at approximately the same killing-efficiency (most of the time);
so thinking about weapon rarities, you can kind of imagine adding one or two more levels of usefulness before it becomes time to swap out weapons/equipment/etc for new ones. It's perfectly fine in earlier modes to cling onto guns for a little longer if you want to, but eventually the choice catches up to you wherever you go.

[Mailer]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

Originally posted by Nakos:

Show me the card for the weapon you're comparing that to.

Also, you can press "E" to compare two cards side by side.

Ah well, too late as used a few keys to get a leveled one, and sold the old one. Anyway I still have these. At face value, without knowing of this penalty, the level 21 is better than the 27 one.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754828466

That's debatable though. The lvl 21 shotgun has a triple-barrel attachment whereas the lvl 27 shotgun has a single barrel and therefore only consumes one shell at a time. In other words, you are deciding between two-shot reloads or 12-shots and then reload.
Even then, note how the lvl 27 shotgun has both a higher accuracy as well as higher damage *per pellet*. Therefore, it's not always reliable to look at the amount of pellets you shoot, which is why the damage is compared the way that it is.

(That doesn't mean Jakobs shotguns are necessarily bad though. In this case you got kind of unlucky with weapon parts, as far as I can see. That skeetergun looks a bit unappetizing because well that's Bandit guns for ya)

[Nakos]

Originally posted by J-&Dre:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2754828466

Hmm... okay, well, that's not necessarily the straight comparison you might think.

The level 21 is a Jacobs (Hit hard, hit once). It has a Bandit (triple) barrel, a Torgue stock and a Torgue grip.

The level 27 is a Bandit, It has a Tediore barrel, hmm ... looks like a Tediore grip, and ... I can't tell what the stock is.

The level 21 will eat ammo like it was going out of style (especially against higher level targets). You'll also need to reload all the time.

The level 27 will be much more accurate out to longer ranges. You won't need to reload as often for that one either.

Then of course there's the damage fall-off, as I mentioned.


Honestly, I wouldn't personally use either of those. A Jacobs shotgun can be pretty nice, but I'd want different parts. Don't really care for Bandit weapons at all.

If I'm using a Shotgun at all (and it isn't something fancy, like a Conference Call), then I'm going to want a Torgue. Ideally a Bang Stick or a Double Lovin' Pounder.


Here's a good guide to weapon parts.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=214863853