Infinity Pistol too weak?

[sab]

When I got the Infinity Pistol I was pretty pumped to use it. Turns out... Minimum level 7 to use it. 50 damage. In other words: Super ♥♥♥♥. I got it on my level 50 Krieg. But I started a new char as Krieg and am using it on him now. My new char is level 20 by now and the Infinity Pistol is quite ♥♥♥♥ for him too. Does this mean I need to farm another one? Because I ain't looking forward into doing that. All Help appriciated!!

[sab]

Zen eredeti hozzászólása:

ShinkuTear eredeti hozzászólása:

Infinity is so weak though, so a proper gun, like a generic SMG, could probly consistently out damage it

I have a bunch of OP8 Infinities from all the Doc Mercy's on the Peak. A vanilla Infinity - Rapid - has a card damge of 334K - OP8 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, non-elemental, have a card damage of around 228K. Infinity RoF is 8, that's the Vanilla, not a Vengeful, which is 10.4 - the ♥♥♥♥♥ is 8.7. The ♥♥♥♥♥ isn't a generic SMG. Pairing weapons with a Bee is about RoF, so the card damge doesn't matter so much - but if that's going to be an issue, then you should know that an OP8 Infinity has about 50% more card damage than a ♥♥♥♥♥, not counting it's crit bonus.

ShinkuTear eredeti hozzászólása:

IMO, it is best left as a gun lowbies

By lowby, you mean a player who judges weapons by card damage and shields by capacity, right?

Thank God. eredeti hozzászólása:

It does. Please stop arguing about this.

You're still trying to lie your way out of the other lie? I can look at the dates of your achievements and see your play history. You gave the game a try back in early February for a couple days,reaching level 10, moved on, then came back for a day on June 25, and finally started playing again 4 days ago. As per your screenshots, you were level 17 on july 17, and have not yet reached level 25. You've played a total of 75 hours, 46 of those in the last 4 or 5 days.

Don't come on here and complain that you got a level 7 drop at level 50 - it didn't happen - you're not level 50 and haven't even reached level 25 yet.

Stop arguing about this. I told you I downloaded a save not so long ago.

[Zen]

ShinkuTear eredeti hozzászólása:

Zen eredeti hozzászólása:

By lowby, you mean a player who judges weapons by card damage and shields by capacity, right?

Lowbie, like Newbie, but instead of being someone new, someone low level or such. Basically, I meant that Infinity is generally best on low level players, to use it as a boost, if they happen to get one.

Right - I was being smarmy. My points were:

1) Judging weapons by card damage or shields by capacity is noobish.

2) The Infinity is not weak insofar as card damage - you said that it was weaker than a generic SMG, so I compared the card damage of a plain old Rapid to a non-elemental B*tch at OP8, and the Infinity has about 50% greater card damage than the B*tch, excluding it's crit bonus.

3) I use Infinities to solo some raid bosses at OP8. I also used them on the Peak. I don't use it for the bosses - the Scorches, Black Queens, Dukino's Mom's, Doc Mercy's, Assassins, Saturns, etc - but for most other enemies, I use the Infinities. Unless you're a Gunzerker, ammo is an issue playing through the peak, especially if your boss guns are DPUH and Sandhawk, which burn through ammo. There's no way you could solo the Peak with just a DPUH.

The Infinity shreds stuff at close-medium range, but the shot pattern makes it incredibly inaccurate at medium longer ranges, unless A) the target is huge B) you use the sights, which increases the accuracy, or by learning to move the gun to follow the pattern inverted - it's the same idea as a counterstrike player moving their mouse in an inverted 7 to control AK recoil. Inexperienced players try to use this gun, not understanding the shot pattern, and when it doesn't drop the target immediately, they conclude that the gun is weak. It's not, They just don't understand the gun or how to use it.

The same type of player says the same thing about other great guns, like the Lady Fist - a lot of people don't get it, or some of the Pearls, the Sawbar, for example. People just expect to point and hold down the left mouse, and if the enemy doesn't drop immediately, the gun is crap. These guns - the legendaries, the Pearls, the Uniques - aren't crap - it's that some players just don't know how to use them, and like to talk about it on the GBX forums, here, on Reddit, etc, and other players just repeat the stuff they read. The same is true of guns that they DO like - they over-rate them, then get angry at GBX when they can't get through the Peak with a just a DPUH or by shamfleeting, saying it's too hard.

Thank God. eredeti hozzászólása:

Stop arguing about this. I told you I downloaded a save not so long ago.

If you downloaded a save from a level 50 game, Doc Mercy would have been leveled to level 50. You killed a level 7-or-so Doc Mercy and he dropped level 7 Infinity. You didn't kill a level 50 Doc Mercy at level 50 that dropped level 7 loot.

[teek]

if you move saves from another platform/device/steam account you don't get the achievements when you log in, meaning you have to redo the content to get the achievements.. if he downloaded a level 50 save he wouldn't have the earlier achievements

my achievements are the same, i moved my save from x360 because the steam sale was too good to pass up

regarding the infinity.. while you can argue that its possible to get through content its definitely not effecient and amongst the new players, this item actually makes uvhm more difficult than it helps. while ROF paired with a bee shield may be a good combination, the total damage per second is actually somewhat low compared to what you could achieve with other combinations in the game. without amplification the passive healing of mobs will be more than enough to counteract the damage output meaning you're useless unless your shield is up. not to mention the figure 8 pattern means that unless you're at a close to medium ranged or constantly zoomed in, you'll be critting far less than with other items which compensates for the discrepancy in rate of fire. we also know the infinity does not incorporate grenade damage or splash effects. splash is considered an extra hit and procs amp again. also, if you check bahroo's mechanic thread you'll see that gun damage does not influence amp damage in any way, meaning if you rely more on amp than you do base you're actually nerfing your damage in the long run

if you don't believe me, do some trial runs with a ladyfist+bee vs infinity+bee. since crits boost amp damage, you get much more damage per second than with an infinity

http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showpost.php?p=3353784&postcount=174
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=251838

this is why the majority of the more experienced players see infinity as nothing but a joke item, because while it may sound great by theory, we can clearly see in application that it only outperforms other items in very specific builds/situations

ie: a nurse maya not having to reload while someone helps them out of FFYL mode


also: stockpile relics allow you to solo DP with one weapon type without having to sacrifice your dps, time, patience & insanity :P

[Zen]

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

if you move saves from another platform/device/steam account you don't get the achievements when you log in, meaning you have to redo the content to get the achievements.. if he downloaded a level 50 save he wouldn't have the earlier achievements

He has old achievements. It's entirely possible to get a level 7 to drop with a level 50 character. I could go into Normal mode now and get Doc Mercy to drop a level 8 or 10 or whatever Infinity with a high level character. My point to him in pointing out the achievements was that his level 50 character wasn't legit, and he admitted as much when he confessed to downloading a save. I suspect that he was playing on normal, wanted an Infinity, downloaded a level 50 save to OP Doc Mercy for an easy farm, and was disappointed when farming at level 7 netted him a level 7 pistol. When he complained about getting level 7 loot at level 50, I was like, "OK, let's just be straight here - you weren't playing legit. Anyone who's played this game for any length of time knows that you're relatively inexperienced at this game - hence the thread. Don't say that you were playing at level 50 and got a level 7 drop. There need to be several caveats to that statement."

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

ladyfist+bee vs infinity+bee. since crits boost amp damage, you get much more damage per second than with an infinity

I'm a big Lady Fist fan. I have a build for the Lady fist. I'm not saying that the Infinity is preferable to the Lady Fist. I'm saying that the Infinity, like the Lady Fist, or any other weapon, is useful at times, and less so at other times.

For example - at 50, I used to solo Terra with a Lady Fist. Terra's crits fall off after a certain number of hits to them, meaning the point of the Lady Fist is lost. At 50, the last of the crits fall off at around, IIRC, about when Terrra has 15 or 20% health, so you can cruise on out with anything. But, in UVHM the crits fall off at a point when Terra had much more health. So, the Lady Fist is useful to that point. On the Peak, I used the Lady Fist until OP5 - I still use it for some stuff, but not as a primary. It has a fast fire rate that's buffed by my Axton Bee build. But because of the high fire rate, which is great any other time, it consumes too much ammo for the Peak. It needs to have a shot at crits - that's a problem with surveyors and other enemies - Doc Mercy, Dukino's Mom, Saturn, etc Other examples would be Pete, who has no crit until his shield is depleted, or Saturn, who has no crits. I love the Lady Fist, and I'm very aware that it has the greatest overall D/S in the game, but like every other weapon, it has it's limitations.

In general, head-to-head comparisons of total weapon damage tested by shooting at Marcus' test dummy aren't indicative of the value of a Borderlands weapon in combat. I'm not a fan of "this weapon is superior to that.", especially if the assertion is based on damage or D/S. All of the weapons have situational limitations. I switch weapons, shields, and other gear in combat. I'm not advocating the Infinity as a primary weapon that is superior to all other weapons - I'm advocating that it has a value, and that it's especially useful on Digistruct Peak and in soloing certain Raid bosses at OP8.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

experienced players see infinity as nothing but a joke item, because while it may sound great by theory

Like I said, I use Infinities for non-boss enemies on the Peak and for some Raid bosses at OP8. It's not the only weapon I use of course, but I use it when I can to save ammo. It's especially useful for surveyors because of it's high RoF, and shreds close-medium range enemies. The infinity pattern is horizontal, so loaders go fast. It's not the best choice for certain enemies or situations, but it is the best choice for others, given it's RoF, elemental damage, and ammo concerns for Bee builds on the Peak ( Bee playstyles like high RoF weapons). My primaries for tough enemies and bosses on the Peak are the Sandhawk, DPUH, and Lady Fist. For all the rest, the piddly stuff, I use the Infinities. Elemental damage is much more important the higher you go - I have shock, corrosive, and fire Infinities, and I use those for the appropriate enemies. I do use other weapons for different situations. I use the MoxxI smgs for corrosive and fire damage on medium and some close range enemies, and the not for the health, but because I prefer the crit damage to the Hellfire's splash.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

also: stockpile relics allow you to solo DP with one weapon type without having to sacrifice your dps, time, patience & insanity :P

That 60%-80% ammo increase doesn't mean that you won't run dry soloing at OP8, especially with non-Bee build. But more importantly, what relic do you give up for the extra ammo?

The great advantage to soloing raid bosses is that you can stop the combat and switch stuff out at your leisure. I switch out everything, shields - for Pete - Evolution until the turrets go up, then switch to the Bee, then back when they go down. If I'm using a pistol, you can bet I'm switching my relic to the Sheriff's Badge - mine is old, 72, so 21% damage boost, 52% RoF increase. I'm not replacing that with 60% or 80% more ammo. When it's Sandhawk time, the SMG relic goes in, some situations - the Assassins on the Peak need the shield cap/recharge rate relic, the Dragons, and Pete at times, get the elemental damage resistance relic.

Using the ammo capacity relics are problematic in that you can equip them, buy the extra ammo, but as soon as you switch them out, the ammo is gone. you can re-equip the relic, and you'll have the greater ammo capacity, but the ammo will be gone - you'll still have the amount of ammo you had before you equiped the relic. So, once you equip those relics, you're committed to them until the fight's over, and I don't think it's worth the damage and shield buff relics.

[GooglyMoogly!]

Zen eredeti hozzászólása:

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

if you move saves from another platform/device/steam account you don't get the achievements when you log in, meaning you have to redo the content to get the achievements.. if he downloaded a level 50 save he wouldn't have the earlier achievements

He has old achievements. It's entirely possible to get a level 7 to drop with a level 50 character. I could go into Normal mode now and get Doc Mercy to drop a level 8 or 10 or whatever Infinity with a high level character. My point to him in pointing out the achievements was that his level 50 character wasn't legit, and he admitted as much when he confessed to downloading a save. I suspect that he was playing on normal, wanted an Infinity, downloaded a level 50 save to OP Doc Mercy for an easy farm, and was disappointed when farming at level 7 netted him a level 7 pistol. When he complained about getting level 7 loot at level 50, I was like, "OK, let's just be straight here - you weren't playing legit. Anyone who's played this game for any length of time knows that you're relatively inexperienced at this game - hence the thread. Don't say that you were playing at level 50 and got a level 7 drop. There need to be several caveats to that statement."

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

ladyfist+bee vs infinity+bee. since crits boost amp damage, you get much more damage per second than with an infinity

I'm a big Lady Fist fan. I have a build for the Lady fist. I'm not saying that the Infinity is preferable to the Lady Fist. I'm saying that the Infinity, like the Lady Fist, or any other weapon, is useful at times, and less so at other times.

For example - at 50, I used to solo Terra with a Lady Fist. Terra's crits fall off after a certain number of hits to them, meaning the point of the Lady Fist is lost. At 50, the last of the crits fall off at around, IIRC, about when Terrra has 15 or 20% health, so you can cruise on out with anything. But, in UVHM the crits fall off at a point when Terra had much more health. So, the Lady Fist is useful to that point. On the Peak, I used the Lady Fist until OP5 - I still use it for some stuff, but not as a primary. It has a fast fire rate that's buffed by my Axton Bee build. But because of the high fire rate, which is great any other time, it consumes too much ammo for the Peak. It needs to have a shot at crits - that's a problem with surveyors and other enemies - Doc Mercy, Dukino's Mom, Saturn, etc Other examples would be Pete, who has no crit until his shield is depleted, or Saturn, who has no crits. I love the Lady Fist, and I'm very aware that it has the greatest overall D/S in the game, but like every other weapon, it has it's limitations.

In general, head-to-head comparisons of total weapon damage tested by shooting at Marcus' test dummy aren't indicative of the value of a Borderlands weapon in combat. I'm not a fan of "this weapon is superior to that.", especially if the assertion is based on damage or D/S. All of the weapons have situational limitations. I switch weapons, shields, and other gear in combat. I'm not advocating the Infinity as a primary weapon that is superior to all other weapons - I'm advocating that it has a value, and that it's especially useful on Digistruct Peak and in soloing certain Raid bosses at OP8.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

experienced players see infinity as nothing but a joke item, because while it may sound great by theory

Like I said, I use Infinities for non-boss enemies on the Peak and for some Raid bosses at OP8. It's not the only weapon I use of course, but I use it when I can to save ammo. It's especially useful for surveyors because of it's high RoF, and shreds close-medium range enemies. The infinity pattern is horizontal, so loaders go fast. It's not the best choice for certain enemies or situations, but it is the best choice for others, given it's RoF, elemental damage, and ammo concerns for Bee builds on the Peak ( Bee playstyles like high RoF weapons). My primaries for tough enemies and bosses on the Peak are the Sandhawk, DPUH, and Lady Fist. For all the rest, the piddly stuff, I use the Infinities. Elemental damage is much more important the higher you go - I have shock, corrosive, and fire Infinities, and I use those for the appropriate enemies. I do use other weapons for different situations. I use the MoxxI smg for corrosive damage on medium and some close range enemies, not for the health, but because I prefer the crit damage to the Hellfire's splash.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

also: stockpile relics allow you to solo DP with one weapon type without having to sacrifice your dps, time, patience & insanity :P

That 60%-80% ammo increase doesn't mean that you won't run dry soloing at OP8, especially with non-Bee build. But more importantly, what relic do you give up for the extra ammo?

The great advantage to soloing raid bosses is that you can stop the combat and switch stuff out at your leisure. I switch out everything, shields - for Pete - Evolution until the turrets go up, then switch to the Bee, then back when they go down. If I'm using a pistol, you can bet I'm switching my relic to the Sheriff's Badge - mine is old, 72, so 21% damage boost, 52% RoF increase. I'm not replacing that with 60% or 80% more ammo. When it's Sandhawk time, the SMG relic goes in, some situations - the Assassins on the Peak need the shield cap/recharge rate relic, the Dragons, and Pete at times, get the elemental damage resistance relic.

Using the ammo capacity relics are problematic in that you can equip them, buy the extra ammo, but as soon as you switch them out, the ammo is gone. you can re-equip the relic, and you'll have the greater ammo capacity, but the ammo will be gone - you'll still have the amount of ammo you had before you equiped the relic. So, once you equip those relics, you're committed to them until the fight's over, and I don't think it's worth the damage and shield buff relics.

Why is this conversation still going on? Don't you losers have games to play?

[Zen]

MagnificentSeven eredeti hozzászólása:

]Why is this conversation still going on? Don't you losers have games to play?

Shouldn't you be trying to finish the Circle of Slaughter? Let the adults talk while you go do that.

[Apex Offender]

There are much better pistols out there and the infinity is lackluster in dps compared to many of the other popular pistols: dpuh, fibber, and the maggie. The infinite ammo isn't needed at higher levels because you have money to burn and your ammo capacity is so high, it should be more than enough to get you to the next vending machine.

[Peggy]

Zen,

I would be interested in seeing you solo Pete at OP 8 level with just an infinity. Please post the URL to the vid.

Thanks

[GooglyMoogly!]

Peggy eredeti hozzászólása:

Zen,

I would be interested in seeing you solo Pete at OP 8 level with just an infinity. Please post the URL to the vid.

Thanks

The trick is dodging a lot, hiding, and using infinity pistol. Infinite ammo assures you won't run out.

[Zen]

Peggy eredeti hozzászólása:

Zen,

I would be interested in seeing you solo Pete at OP 8 level with just an infinity. Please post the URL to the vid.

Thanks

I've never soloed Pete with only an Infinity at any level. I have a different build for Pete and the Dragons that maxes out Axton's elemental resistance skill. I use Evolution/DPUH when the turrets are down, and swirch to Beehawk (while he has shields) or LadyBee (when they're gone) when the turrents are up or until he does his nova animation. I CAN use an Infinity, I have a shock infinity and I have used it instead of Sandhawk and Lady Fist when the turrents are up, but I haven't used it when the turrents are down in place of DPUH. It's totally doable, it'll just take longer. When the turrets are down, it means you're strafing backwards from Pete, trying to avoid the element streams while shooting at him - you try to keep a distance - that's not a good use for the Infinity, it's too much distance and movement. It's doable, but it would take longer.

[Peggy]

Zen,

So you would choose to use the DPUH over the Infinity.

[teek]

pete is easy with any weapon, want a fun tip? get a trespasser and use a bee shield to knock his helmet off at the beginning of the encounter and you can crit him throughout the rest of the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raEshinBkaA

vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HElZOcE83Cc

in theory firerate+amp with a infinibee should be good but in practice we can clearly see it is far outclassed.. and this is only one item.. ladyfist does not have splash damage, i only used it as an example because of the crit rate.. adding splash and post-fire pellet split on top of it with items such as the pimpernel makes the infinity look like you're bringing a knife to a gunfight

if you'd like to use it i'm not going to stop you but in my honest opinion the infinity is a weapon best left in tvhm

a couple other things:

if you're using a sheriff's badge with the infinity and bee shield i'm pretty sure you'll have less damage output than if you matched that element and went with a bone of the ancients. as covered in bahroo's mechanics thread gun damage is multiplied by base before being added to amp, therefore does not influence amp

in regards to stockpile, i only use it when i'm doing trying to speedrun DP, running around looking for ammo/switching to less optimal weapons takes more time than the dps i lose dropping a relic. i use the 70% sniper 70% smg +4(or 3, can't remember) grenade purple stockpile relic

[Zen]

Peggy eredeti hozzászólása:

Zen,

So you would choose to use the DPUH over the Infinity.

In that case, yes. And also in a lot of other cases. But there are plenty of cases where I prefer Infinity to DPUH, or Infinity to Sandhawk, or Infinity to Lady Fist - specifically situations on digistruct Peak and in certain Raid Bosses.

I see the point that trying to make here, and my point here is beyond the value of the Infnity. It's that a lot of people subscribe a Jesus-gun or Jesus combo paradigm: that "All you need is a DPUH, everything else is crap." or "All you need ito run is Beehawk." or "All you need to run is ShamFleet.", or "LadyBee", or whatever.

I don't have that frame at all. I don't frame the gear as a heirarchy, where there is a Jesus gun, and the rest is crap. Teek posted a comparison of the Lady fist and the Infinity. I didn't watch the vids, because i already know that the Lady Fist has the best D/S. It's my favorite gun.

But, as I posted before, the Lady Fist is only effective in certain situations against certain enemies, and useless against others. The DPUH is the same. It's clearly not a medium-log range weapon. some enemies, Oney, for example, are explosive resistant. You can't use the DPUH for a lot of enemies on the peak. You need to save it for what it's best uses. Even then, you might run out of ammo - that's happened to me more than once. It's the same the sandhawk on the Peak. It's a great gun, but like the DPUH, it has a low firerate, and eats ammo. SMGs are good for chasing down surveyors because of their RoF, but the sandhawk doesn't have that quality - low RoF, low projectile speed. that's not a good use of that gun.

There's no Jesus gun in Borderlands, and the argument against the Infinity is that there is a Jesus gun, and the Infinity isn't it, so it's crap. The criteria for the heirarchical frame is based on card damage for the less sophisticated, and D/S for the more sophisticated, but both are essentially the same argument for the same heirarchical criteria - that the value of a weapon is solely it's damage or D/S. That's not a good criteria when you have a game where enemy variations make certain weapons useless. The Lady Fist probably has the highest D/S paired with the Bee in the game, but it's useless against enemies with no crits, or when crits are obscured by movement - surveyors, or shields - nomads or Doc Mercy, or crits that fall off -Terramorphous.

It may be that some of the legendaries, uniques, and Seraphs are useless or only useful in special situations, but the Infinity isn't one of them. It's very useful on the Peak, Murderlin's Temple, and soloing certain Raid bosses. It's effective in some situations, and ineffective in others, but the same is true for the DPUH, Sandhawk, Lady Fist, and Norfleet.

Having said that, though, it's not necessary in Normal mode, and it's not worth farming at that point.

[teek]

i wasn't trying to endorse any one particular gun i was just trying to say that no matter what content/enemy you're running in uvhm there are many other items that outclass the infinity in every aspect except in special circumstances.. like if you're farming loot piles :D the reasoning behind that statement is because of the way damage calculation in this game is designed.

if you want to take raw amp damage per second firerate isn't the only thing that is going to increase this, unlisted bullet split and splash damage do considerably more damage than firerate. you can see this when observing the pimpernel, it has higher card damage than an infinity but close to 1/7th the firerate, plus you have to reload it.. but it will still do more damage per second with a bee on non-crits than sal dual weilding infinities and critting every shot.. it will also maintain more dps until your entire source of sniper ammo is dry, reloads included

while some may find uses for the infinity, i wouldn't even be holding on to an op8 version if it wasn't used in my nurse maya build.

[sab]

Zen eredeti hozzászólása:

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

if you move saves from another platform/device/steam account you don't get the achievements when you log in, meaning you have to redo the content to get the achievements.. if he downloaded a level 50 save he wouldn't have the earlier achievements

He has old achievements. It's entirely possible to get a level 7 to drop with a level 50 character. I could go into Normal mode now and get Doc Mercy to drop a level 8 or 10 or whatever Infinity with a high level character. My point to him in pointing out the achievements was that his level 50 character wasn't legit, and he admitted as much when he confessed to downloading a save. I suspect that he was playing on normal, wanted an Infinity, downloaded a level 50 save to OP Doc Mercy for an easy farm, and was disappointed when farming at level 7 netted him a level 7 pistol. When he complained about getting level 7 loot at level 50, I was like, "OK, let's just be straight here - you weren't playing legit. Anyone who's played this game for any length of time knows that you're relatively inexperienced at this game - hence the thread. Don't say that you were playing at level 50 and got a level 7 drop. There need to be several caveats to that statement."

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

ladyfist+bee vs infinity+bee. since crits boost amp damage, you get much more damage per second than with an infinity

I'm a big Lady Fist fan. I have a build for the Lady fist. I'm not saying that the Infinity is preferable to the Lady Fist. I'm saying that the Infinity, like the Lady Fist, or any other weapon, is useful at times, and less so at other times.

For example - at 50, I used to solo Terra with a Lady Fist. Terra's crits fall off after a certain number of hits to them, meaning the point of the Lady Fist is lost. At 50, the last of the crits fall off at around, IIRC, about when Terrra has 15 or 20% health, so you can cruise on out with anything. But, in UVHM the crits fall off at a point when Terra had much more health. So, the Lady Fist is useful to that point. On the Peak, I used the Lady Fist until OP5 - I still use it for some stuff, but not as a primary. It has a fast fire rate that's buffed by my Axton Bee build. But because of the high fire rate, which is great any other time, it consumes too much ammo for the Peak. It needs to have a shot at crits - that's a problem with surveyors and other enemies - Doc Mercy, Dukino's Mom, Saturn, etc Other examples would be Pete, who has no crit until his shield is depleted, or Saturn, who has no crits. I love the Lady Fist, and I'm very aware that it has the greatest overall D/S in the game, but like every other weapon, it has it's limitations.

In general, head-to-head comparisons of total weapon damage tested by shooting at Marcus' test dummy aren't indicative of the value of a Borderlands weapon in combat. I'm not a fan of "this weapon is superior to that.", especially if the assertion is based on damage or D/S. All of the weapons have situational limitations. I switch weapons, shields, and other gear in combat. I'm not advocating the Infinity as a primary weapon that is superior to all other weapons - I'm advocating that it has a value, and that it's especially useful on Digistruct Peak and in soloing certain Raid bosses at OP8.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

experienced players see infinity as nothing but a joke item, because while it may sound great by theory

Like I said, I use Infinities for non-boss enemies on the Peak and for some Raid bosses at OP8. It's not the only weapon I use of course, but I use it when I can to save ammo. It's especially useful for surveyors because of it's high RoF, and shreds close-medium range enemies. The infinity pattern is horizontal, so loaders go fast. It's not the best choice for certain enemies or situations, but it is the best choice for others, given it's RoF, elemental damage, and ammo concerns for Bee builds on the Peak ( Bee playstyles like high RoF weapons). My primaries for tough enemies and bosses on the Peak are the Sandhawk, DPUH, and Lady Fist. For all the rest, the piddly stuff, I use the Infinities. Elemental damage is much more important the higher you go - I have shock, corrosive, and fire Infinities, and I use those for the appropriate enemies. I do use other weapons for different situations. I use the MoxxI smgs for corrosive and fire damage on medium and some close range enemies, and the not for the health, but because I prefer the crit damage to the Hellfire's splash.

teek eredeti hozzászólása:

also: stockpile relics allow you to solo DP with one weapon type without having to sacrifice your dps, time, patience & insanity :P

That 60%-80% ammo increase doesn't mean that you won't run dry soloing at OP8, especially with non-Bee build. But more importantly, what relic do you give up for the extra ammo?

The great advantage to soloing raid bosses is that you can stop the combat and switch stuff out at your leisure. I switch out everything, shields - for Pete - Evolution until the turrets go up, then switch to the Bee, then back when they go down. If I'm using a pistol, you can bet I'm switching my relic to the Sheriff's Badge - mine is old, 72, so 21% damage boost, 52% RoF increase. I'm not replacing that with 60% or 80% more ammo. When it's Sandhawk time, the SMG relic goes in, some situations - the Assassins on the Peak need the shield cap/recharge rate relic, the Dragons, and Pete at times, get the elemental damage resistance relic.

Using the ammo capacity relics are problematic in that you can equip them, buy the extra ammo, but as soon as you switch them out, the ammo is gone. you can re-equip the relic, and you'll have the greater ammo capacity, but the ammo will be gone - you'll still have the amount of ammo you had before you equiped the relic. So, once you equip those relics, you're committed to them until the fight's over, and I don't think it's worth the damage and shield buff relics.

I actually downloaded the save a while ago (2 weeks Idunno) for no reason. I just wanted to experience what it would be like to be level 50.