Borderlands 2: Commander Lilith & the Fight for Sanctuary

[Grumpy Sunshine]

why do I never see this one on sale? it is the only dlc I don't own

it says mixed so call me poor if you'd like but I don't feel like paying full price for it

[Nakos]

It goes on sale. Just not as often as the Handsome Collection. And ... almost never at the same time as the Handsome Collection.

You should watch some of the other legit retailers too, they tend to have sales at different times than Steam (and some of them also provide Steam Keys).

[z00t]

Mixed reviews are from people who missed out on the initial free for a month deal and/or super annoyed at the price 2K put on the non-free version.

Make no mistake, the DLC is essential to the game now. Sort of Vault Hunter Upgrade #3 with the 8 extra levels you need to be able to reach 80. And a whole lot more apart from that.
New enemies, maps, missions, bosses, a complete new range of Effervescent AKA Rainbow gear that are pearlescent or legendary on steroids. Very effective some of them. Everything except class mods.

Look around for Steam keys for sale and treat yourself. Lots of fun things to do there. It is set at a time after Tales, so it is best to do the DLC after you at least know the story. It has spoilers to absolutely Everything and really should be done last.

[Demosthenes424]

You never see it on sale because it's "essential" to the game now and they're counting on MMO-land peer pressure to price gouge their customers for them. Finish the game as-is and move on, accepting that it can never actually be completed, or commit to paying them an extra $15-20 every few years for every game of theirs you own as they release new essential content piecemeal and proceed to charge more for it than the "complete" packages cost before. As far as how the DLC is itself, most of the reviews I've read focus more on the power it grants your characters and less on it actually being a fun experience to play... or just never get past the cash-grabby price compared to the rest of the series. Dunno, I'll play it once I finish the rest and delete the game from my library. Then I'll be able to borrow the DLC from someone who actually got it when it was free with library sharing, which I can't do now since I already own it. Go figure. Then I'll move the hell on and never play anything from this company again, because I refuse to support this business model. :P

[Casurin]

Originally posted by z00t:

Make no mistake, the DLC is essential to the game now. Sort of Vault Hunter Upgrade #3 with the 8 extra levels you need to be able to reach 80. And a whole lot more apart from that.
New enemies, maps, missions, bosses, a complete new range of Effervescent AKA Rainbow gear that are pearlescent or legendary on steroids. Very effective some of them. Everything except class mods.

Yeah - new very strong items but also even higher level cap.... so far i was not able to beat the irongod. they are just insane.

Originally posted by z00t:

Mixed reviews are from people who missed out on the initial free for a month deal and/or super annoyed at the price 2K put on the non-free version.

I also would never give the DLC a positive rating - too expensive and removing old content for people that do not own this new content.

[gamename]

Originally posted by z00t:

Mixed reviews are from people who missed out on the initial free for a month deal and/or super annoyed at the price 2K put on the non-free version.

I also would never give the DLC a positive rating - too expensive and removing old content for people that do not own this new content. [/quote]

Removing content? Other than cross-OS play?

[Nakos]

Originally posted by gamename:

Removing content? Other than cross-OS play?

Digistruct Peak and the OP levels used to be accessible at level 72, which was the max level prior to the release of Commander Lilith.

But the key is max level. Commander Lilith raised the max level to 80. That meant that people who had been running OP levels at 72 could no longer access them, because they were no longer max level. Their earned OP levels were still there, but they had to level back up to 80 to access them again.

And that required owning Commander Lilith. Hence a great deal of the negativity surrounding it.

[gamename]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Originally posted by gamename:

Removing content? Other than cross-OS play?

Digistruct Peak and the OP levels used to be accessible at level 72, which was the max level prior to the release of Commander Lilith.

But the key is max level. Commander Lilith raised the max level to 80. That meant that people who had been running OP levels at 72 could no longer access them, because they were no longer max level. Their earned OP levels were still there, but they had to level back up to 80 to access them again.

Reading this far, was going to say I have mixed feelings .. I mean, kinda sucks, but anyone who was playing at that level before would probably want to do the extra 8 levels anyway .. but then I read the rest of your comment ...

And that required owning Commander Lilith. Hence a great deal of the negativity surrounding it.

Ohhhhh. So, it moved the OP levels to after 80 even if you don't have Lil - so if you missed the free period, you'd need to buy Lil just to be able to get to 80 and get back to Digi and OP that you'd been playing before? That's pretty foul. Negativity well deserved. (For that and also the Shift nonsense I've heard about - the 'new' Shift stuff, always-on etc.)

I'm on Linux, so I was pretty angry about them breaking cross-OS, telling us to wait for an update to bring us back to parity, and then abandoning us. I'm still annoyed to not have some of the 'new' stuff (Lil DLC and Gfx, now that I've got a nice rig), but some of the stuff I've heard (eg, Shift madness) ... Screw these guys

I just realized I actually do 'own' the Lil DLC, so I guess I can leave a review. (Added it in the free period .. waited for the promised port.)

Edit: Most of you vets/forum regulars in this thread probably know this, but, FWIW, under Linux, nothing has changed since pre-Lil. Digistruct/OP still starts at 72 for us. I guess if you want to do Digi/OP and not buy Lil, you could play in Linux. Saves are compatible, right? I think they were, back in pre-Lil days.

[z00t]

To correct some ideas about Lilith adding to the cap. Not the case.
The Game Cap was raised to 80. For Everyone. The game needed to know all about it should it encounter it in game, regardless of player level.
That is the reason why choosing the old OP levels did not work afterwards. The OP levels were always [max level] + whatever OP levels you earned, so 72-OP 8 was correct. But with the Game [max level] being raised to 80, you couldn't activate them any more.
You didn't lose them, they remained Earned, you do not need to redo any you have already, but you needed to be at new [max level] before you could activate them again.
This is where Lilith DLC comes in. It provides the 8 extra skill points as a sort of Upgrade Pack #3. It provides the Solution to bridging the Game Cap.

In the meantime you can still use any old OP8 gear you had. You earned the right to use them, but they will be just level 80 gear.
When you reach 80 you will be able to start the game at OP8 again. All your enemies will be 8 levels higher than your gear though, so super annoying bullet sponges, but killable with some effort.
You will need to do some farming for new OP8 level gear though.
Then there are the new OP9 and OP10 to try for. You will need to earn these. Think double Saturn and OMGWTH for both.

2K chose to break cross play with everyone and Linux and Mac were affected.

I have almost completed a full OP10 playthrough. Apart from 2 raid bosses. You know the ones. But I eventually defeated a level 101 Iron God, the highest level enemy I have killed. It took a Lot of ammo.

Anyone on PC who wants to play in the OP levels again will have to get Lilith. As simple as that. Lilith provides the 8 points necessary.

Linux users, running BL2 under Proton will allow PC play. Not tried it but apparently it works.

Have fun.

------------------- Additional screenshot at OP10 -------------------
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2359539722

It took a while.

[gamename]

Originally posted by z00t:

The game needed to know all about it should it encounter it in game, regardless of player level.

I guess I see your point, but it still seems lousy, and like they could have figured out a better solution. I mean, sure, I guess in the old days you couldn't get to Digi at the UVHM-1 cap (60 or 61 IIRC), but then, Digi was the UVHM-2 DLC. So, now, Windows people who paid for Digi can't use it unless they also have Lil. They could have at least kept Lil free for people who owned Digi/UVHM-2 before Lil was released (but who snoozed on the give-away period).

The Game Cap was raised to 80. For Everyone.

Well, not for Linux users (or Mac?). What about save-games? Am I correct in thinking that they were compatible a few years ago, pre-Lil, that one could copy a save from Windows to Linux &vv? And if so .. what about now?

In the meantime you can still use any old OP8 gear you had. You earned the right to use them, but they will be just level 80 gear.

So, someone with OP-8 gear at lv 72 now has to level to 80, but is playing with lvl 80 gear during that? Balance ....

Linux users, running BL2 under Proton will allow PC play. Not tried it but apparently it works.

Haven't done that, don't think I'm going to, still BS that we never got our update. Admittedly, my nice new rig makes me consider it just a tiny bit (bc now I could actually handle the Gfx update).
(Not laying this on you or anything, I understand you're just explaining the situation / options available.)

[Nakos]

Originally posted by z00t:

To correct some ideas about Lilith adding to the cap. Not the case.
The Game Cap was raised to 80. For Everyone.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say, but z00t's explanation was more comprehensive.

Originally posted by gamename:

The Game Cap was raised to 80. For Everyone.

Well, not for Linux users (or Mac?). What about save-games? Am I correct in thinking that they were compatible a few years ago, pre-Lil, that one could copy a save from Windows to Linux &vv? And if so .. what about now?

Save files can be ported from one OS to another. (I ported my BL:TPS saves from the Mac to the PC).

The max level is 80 for Mac users as well.

Exactly what got changed for Mac users and how much of an upgrade they got is ... unclear. 2K (and Gearbox) decided to stop paying Aspyr. I THINK Aspyr did some of the work (porting over whatever the new changes were) prior to that simply on good faith, but I'm not entirely sure how that worked out.

But prior to the Commander Lilith release, Mac and PC gamers could cross-play together without doing anything special.

Now, it no longer seems to work properly, unless everyone (who wants to cross-play) is downgraded to the same Rev number of the game. I'm not clear on what it takes because honestly, I never bother with co-op.

Adding to the issue is the fact that Apple sunsetted 32 bit compatibility roughly around the same time. Technically, BL2 shouldn't work on post Catalina systems ... and yet it does. Sadly, BL:TPS no longer runs if you're using a post Catalina system.

My iMac is old enough that technically, I could install a pre-Catalina system (on a USB drive or something) and boot from that if I really wanted to run it, but ... I can also still run bootcamp on this machine, so ... it's just as easy to switch over to Windows where I can run both BL2 and BL:TPS just fine.

And of course, the biggest issue is that my iMac is showing its age. I'm really about due for a new machine if I want to keep playing newer games. And ... it's probably just more useful if I just buy a PC next time around. I don't really want to do that, all of my creative software licenses are for the Mac, but ... the M1 and M2 Macs can't run bootcamp (mostly because of a deal between Microsoft and Qualcomm).

Originally posted by gamename:

So, someone with OP-8 gear at lv 72 now has to level to 80, but is playing with lvl 80 gear during that? Balance ....

Well, yeah, but at that point, I don't think they care that much about balance.

[z00t]

Originally posted by gamename:

In the meantime you can still use any old OP8 gear you had. You earned the right to use them, but they will be just level 80 gear.

So, someone with OP-8 gear at lv 72 now has to level to 80, but is playing with lvl 80 gear during that? Balance ....

You Earned the right to carry and use level 80 weapons.
But the new level cap needs to be reached before you gain control of your Earned OP levels.

Yeah, 2K could have done things better, but they didn't. We have to deal with that now :(

You have to work at it a bit to gain the shiny New Balance. That has nothing to do with shoes.

Search for a Lilith Steam key on other reputable sites.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Nakos:

But prior to the Commander Lilith release, Mac and PC gamers could cross-play together without doing anything special.

Wasn't it 1 update priot to lilith - the addition of the big Ads and shi(f)t-system?

Originally posted by Nakos:

Technically, BL2 shouldn't work on post Catalina systems ... and yet it does. Sadly, BL:TPS no longer runs if you're using a post Catalina system.

For whatever reason they apparantly recompiled BL2 as a 64bit binary ONLY for Mac.

[Nakos]

Originally posted by Casurin:

Originally posted by Nakos:

But prior to the Commander Lilith release, Mac and PC gamers could cross-play together without doing anything special.

Wasn't it 1 update priot to lilith - the addition of the big Ads and shi(f)t-system?

Probably. Like I say, I don't really care about co-op. I just upgraded as far as I could and then ignored all the rest of it.

Originally posted by Casurin:

Originally posted by Nakos:

Technically, BL2 shouldn't work on post Catalina systems ... and yet it does. Sadly, BL:TPS no longer runs if you're using a post Catalina system.

For whatever reason they apparantly recompiled BL2 as a 64bit binary ONLY for Mac.

Yeah, wish they'd done it for BL:TPS too, but I don't even know if Aspyr got paid for all the work they did on BL2.

[gamename]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Originally posted by z00t:

To correct some ideas about Lilith adding to the cap. Not the case.
The Game Cap was raised to 80. For Everyone.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say, but z00t's explanation was more comprehensive.

Yeah, I think I got you, but then z00t added nuance / precision. Rather than 'Lil raises the cap', it's 'the cap was raised when Lil was released, and Lil DLC is kinda UVHM-3'.

And of course, the biggest issue is that my iMac is showing its age. I'm really about due for a new machine if I want to keep playing newer games. And ... it's probably just more useful if I just buy a PC next time around. I don't really want to do that, all of my creative software licenses are for the Mac, but ... the M1 and M2 Macs can't run bootcamp (mostly because of a deal between Microsoft and Qualcomm).

Can't say much about Macs or license woes, but if you're looking at non-Macs, I recently got a pretty great machine at a pretty reasonable price, IMO, on Newegg - and saw several other pretty good deals on there too. Just speculating, but pre-holiday sales, new chip releases in the last couple months, and various reasons for better GPU availability than we've seen for a while all point to some decent deals right now. If you're heavy on professional creative work, you might be aiming for even later and greater, but if you'd be happy with last years greatness .. it's out there. If Intel's new GPU were widely available on release date, I might've gone for Arc770 (16GB VRAM, ~350USD) and a Zen3 AMD (their last gen on the old socket).

Originally posted by z00t:

Search for a Lilith Steam key on other reputable sites.
:borderlands2:

Got a little confused by the formatting there :p, but .. I added Lilith DLC to my library during the give-away period when it was released, so I 'have' a copy ... But I'm on Linux so I've never used it. Probably won't use Proton just for that DLC, but 'never say never', I guess.

Originally posted by Nakos:

Probably. Like I say, I don't really care about co-op. I just upgraded as far as I could and then ignored all the rest of it.

Yehhh .. As much as I think it's BS that they broke cross-OS, I hadn't actually played co-op in a long time either. Still, I would've played Lil DLC co-op with an old buddy though, had it been possible. Also BS Linux never got Lil and Gfx, would've been nice even without restoring co-op. But we also didn't get ads or 'newShift', so, silver lining.

[Nakos]

Originally posted by gamename:

... but if you're looking at non-Macs, I recently got a pretty great machine at a pretty reasonable price, IMO, on Newegg - and saw several other pretty good deals on there too. Just speculating, but pre-holiday sales, new chip releases in the last couple months, and various reasons for better GPU availability than we've seen for a while all point to some decent deals right now. If you're heavy on professional creative work, you might be aiming for even later and greater, but if you'd be happy with last years greatness .. it's out there. If Intel's new GPU were widely available on release date, I might've gone for Arc770 (16GB VRAM, ~350USD) and a Zen3 AMD (their last gen on the old socket).

Hm.. worth considering.

My older games (and my Mac specific games (such as there are)) still run fine, but ... I'm gazing into the future of Destiny 2 at Lightfall and wondering if my old machine is going to be able to handle it. I already feel like it's getting a bit sluggish handling the later seasons of Witch Queen.

Mostly if I want a PC, it'll be for gaming.