Quick Question about deception bonuses.

[Menerva]

How does the deception bonus for melee work? Is it on a timer that starts when you enter deception, or is it how much time is left on deception? I ask because of Many Must Fall, when attempting to chain it, as my time gets lower and lower I notice a severe drop in melee damage.

I.E: Enter deception, wait until there's less than a second left on the timer, and go for a melee with execute. I hit and one shot with 203,000 damage. Repeat the cycle for a bit until I'm only doing 30,000 damage per hit. Even with 0.01 left on deception.

It's been bugging me for a while. So I figured I'd come here. And before I forget, when I decided to test and got the aforementioned numbers, I did without a roid shield. So no bonus loss from that.

[Wayward]

The less time left on the clock, the more damage you do. Execute is triggered by holding down the melee button, so you "rush" forwards and cut. The 203k-30k damage difference can be explained by you triggering killing blow and/or counter strike. Backstab might also play an effect, increasing damage if you hit someone from behind.

[Menerva]

Hmm, I haven't specced into either backstab or killing blow yet. I'll try holding the melee button though.

[Herr Sten]

I believe it actually isnt how much time there is left on the clock, but how much time you've spent in Deception. The clock gets reset everytime you trigger MMF too, resluting in less clock time and less damage. Atleast that is how i think it is.

[Menerva]

That would make the most sense. Though it makes me wonder what OP8 melee zero is gonna be like. The only time I've gotten to OP8 is with salvador, so I don't exactly know what OP8 is like when you're not near invincible.

[Emi]

Originally posted by More Like Win-More:

That would make the most sense. Though it makes me wonder what OP8 melee zero is gonna be like. The only time I've gotten to OP8 is with salvador, so I don't exactly know what OP8 is like when you're not near invincible.

From someone that has melee zer0(s) & actively plays them at both 50 & op8: pretty much the same as lower level caps for melee zer0 (op8) but bosses will take more patience & also breaking deception to slag badasses or tankier enemies is usually essential. self-dmg from kunai can be a pain (thanks to lack of a scaling health on op8) bar sometimes also but with decent timing it can be overcome. zer0's squishiness means melee zer0 has to heal past health gate frequently at both difficulties- obviously being more often at op8. keep in mind though that it becomes easier to pass health gate.

main points:
-op8 takes longer to kill bosses.
-op8 needs setup on tougher enemies (slag & kunai before hit).
-op8 means melee zer0 has a minor loss to amount of hits he can take.
-shorter m.m.f chains.
+easier to pass health gate from bullet damage.

all of this is completely useless if you wanted a comparison to op8 sal rather than a comparison to lower level melee zer0. Also just an opinion based on my own experience, main point is that melee zer0 does fine at all level caps.

[Menerva]

That's quite good to know, thanks! Though I evedently need to get better at playing melee zero, because getting a shorter m.m.f chain than the average 0 I'm getting would take some effort. :P

Though it is quite fun on the weaker enemies of the game to just run around and kill them all while staying in deception.

[Emi]

Originally posted by More Like Win-More:

That's quite good to know, thanks! Though I evedently need to get better at playing melee zero, because getting a shorter m.m.f chain than the average 0 I'm getting would take some effort. :P

Though it is quite fun on the weaker enemies of the game to just run around and kill them all while staying in deception.

what level are you on at the moment?

melee zer0 benefits hugely from a good roid shield like the Love Thumper or Hide Of Terramorphous & a grenade that can keep these shields down i.e. Storm Front & Chain Lightning. Of course, saving those items until you struggle to play without them is always a good idea so you can use them in higher-level areas where they may become essential to progress. While not needed by any means, switching build until you get to end-game can also make things easier for you.

Using this guide "Advanced Melee Zer0 Guide: from lvl 1 to OP8
By Altair and 3 collaborators" is also extremely useful. Search for Melee Zer0 and this guide is near the top.

[Menerva]

Currently level 43, I may grind for a zero fuse time Storm Front, and the only reason I don't have a love thumper is that I'm lazy. I'll get that done later. For the most part I use a rapier for melee.

Thus far I really haven't had a reason to change up my build. But right now I'm really feeling the sting of not being able to strip my roid shield on command.

[Reality]

I still think people speccing for melee zero should start with the cunning tree while leveling, since deathmark and ambush are multiplictive bonuses rather than the mostly additive ones in the bloodshed tree, you take the cunning tree as your second capstone in melee builds anyway , and it synergizes with stuff like shotguns / pistols if you need a backup to melee every now and then.

[Menerva]

I took bloodshed over cunning because I didn't feel like I needed the survivability that cunning gives. The pure damage and Many Must Fall of bloodshed seemed a lot more appealing. I'd need a skill chart right in my face to explain exactly why. But that's just what I think.