Why do alot of people think that Axton is the weakest vaulthunter in Borderlands 2?

[The Traveler]

Not long ago, I made a discussion containing a link to a poll asking which Borderlands 2 vaulthunter was the weakest. Here's the link to the discussion: https://steamcommunity.com/app/49520/discussions/0/3211505894120695546/

The most voted option was "None" but the second-most voted was Axton. Granted, I should've seen it coming, but still. Axton? He's strong!

Now I should tell you that I am an Axton main. You're probably like: "ERMGERD he's an axton fanboy in denial, murrr" but I actually know how to play him unlike most Salvador mains (lol) so before you comment why you think Axton is the weakest (some of you don't think that) Im gonna counter some arguments I heard from other people.

"Axton's action skill sucks. It does very little damage in UVHM and it dies so quickly"

You're not supposed to use it to kill enemies for you. You're supposed to have it distract and slag enemies for you, and when it does, the turret is very useful. Axton's "Longbow Turret" skill increases its health by a♥♥♥♥♥♥ton and lets you deploy the turret at any range (unless you're deploying the turret all the way from china) plus, you should kill the enemies the turret is distracting, otherwise the turret is gonna die quick. Use it right and you can go on a killing spree without taking any damage.

"Axton is a jack-of-all trades class. He is good at everything yet not the best at anything"

Axton sucks at melee and is the best vaulthunter with Grenades, Tediore reloads, Assault Rifles (excluding Jakobs Assault Rifles) and Rocket Launchers. He's also great with guns that get boosted by grenade damage boosts.

"Axton doesn't have an OP skill like every other character does"

He doesn't need it. His "OP skill" is his skill tree. You can get alot of DPS boosts from his skill tree. Plus, its not okay Zer0 can instakill bosses on OP8 with the starter pistol. "OP" isn't a good thing. OP = Overpowered. OP things should be nerfed so its balanced. Axton is balanced and still strong. For some reason, people think "Balanced" means "Weak" which is untrue. It just means Axton is powerful without needing to rely on broken mechanics.

"Axton has bad skills like Laser Sight, Duty Calls and Ranger"

Every character has bad skills nobody wants or need, so with that logic, every vaulthunter sucks.

"Axton doesn't have alot of viable builds compared to other vaulthunters"

Untrue. I could name several viable builds. There's Grenade Axton, Tediore Axton, Soldier Axton, Assault Rifle Axton, Gemini Axton, KillSkill Axton. There are plenty of Axton builds I haven't mentioned.

"Axton struggles with Raid Bosses"

Ummm no he doesn't. He can wreck plenty of raidbosses in a couple of seconds.



If you think Axton is the weakest, let me know why.

[Sirius]

Didn't we already cover that in your other thread, too?

People likely think because he's not 'immediately OP' when it comes to a lot of his skills, he's a weak character.

He misses the insane DPS Sal or Zero can dish out. He misses the dead-stop crowd control of Maya. He misses the 'pet is mobile and can be hilariously buffed' of Gaige.

Yet he is fantastic in the right hands, it's just that people almost always want the more immediate, high DPS OPness some of the other toons provide.

Axton is a lot of work to get him right and use his skilltree with purpose, and also he's 'just another soldier' as most people also played as Roland in BL1 which was essentially the same baseline playstyle and that can get a little boring across multiple games.

Since to my knowledge nobody did extensive numbers testing yet on how the toons compare with best gear and across several categories like highest sinlge shot DPS etc., all this is is bias.

People either don't like him because 'lame, soldier again', or because of the fact that his action skill is more supportive than the WHOMP! DEAD! capacity of the action skill of most other toons.

In other words, people think the turret(s) should do all the work and can't get around the fact that they are still playing a well-rounded soldier who needs good legwork and situational awareness to not get zapped, and has to exploit openings the turrets provide, being as accurate as possible while kiting / strafing / managing weapons and grenades.

That's way more tactical gameplay than most other toons where you mostly activate the skill and start killing. And when people have to do more complex playstyles for other toons, the immediate 'reward' is usually more directly noticable, like Gaige with Anarchy for example, or turning Krieg into a badass psycho.

I guess people feel about the same wether they have the turrets out or not ("not helping much" complaints), and so they think Axton is 'the weakest' because they fail to see he needs more synergy AND an active playstyle for his skills to really make an impact in the game.

This is a game that is supposed to be a bit on the silly side with plot and damage numbers, and some characters with their "OVER 9000!" combos and skills simply appeal more to the weak, instant gratification crowd that is for some reason attracted to this game.

But in the end, it's really just bias, for reasons explained or different ones entirely.

Tried playing Krieg for the longest time, can't. By the logic of those people saying Axton is 'weak', I should call Krieg weak as well. But the difference is, I know that's just me, and not a universal truth.

[The Traveler]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Didn't we already cover that in your other thread, too?

People likely think because he's not 'immediately OP' when it comes to a lot of his skills, he's a weak character.

He misses the insane DPS Sal or Zero can dish out. He misses the dead-stop crowd control of Maya. He misses the 'pet is mobile and can be hilariously buffed' of Gaige.

Yet he is fantastic in the right hands, it's just that people almost always want the more immediate, high DPS OPness some of the other toons provide.

Axton is a lot of work to get him right and use his skilltree with purpose, and also he's 'just another soldier' as most people also played as Roland in BL1 which was essentially the same baseline playstyle and that can get a little boring across multiple games.

Since to my knowledge nobody did extensive numbers testing yet on how the toons compare with best gear and across several categories like highest sinlge shot DPS etc., all this is is bias.

People either don't like him because 'lame, soldier again', or because of the fact that his action skill is more supportive than the WHOMP! DEAD! capacity of the action skill of most other toons.

In other words, people think the turret(s) should do all the work and can't get around the fact that they are still playing a well-rounded soldier who needs good legwork and situational awareness to not get zapped, and has to exploit openings the turrets provide, being as accurate as possible while kiting / strafing / managing weapons and grenades.

That's way more tactical gameplay than most other toons where you mostly activate the skill and start killing. And when people have to do more complex playstyles for other toons, the immediate 'reward' is usually more directly noticable, like Gaige with Anarchy for example, or turning Krieg into a badass psycho.

I guess people feel about the same wether they have the turrets out or not ("not helping much" complaints), and so they think Axton is 'the weakest' because they fail to see he needs more synergy AND an active playstyle for his skills to really make an impact in the game.

This is a game that is supposed to be a bit on the silly side with plot and damage numbers, and some characters with their "OVER 9000!" combos and skills simply appeal more to the weak, instant gratification crowd that is for some reason attracted to this game.

But in the end, it's really just bias, for reasons explained or different ones entirely.

Tried playing Krieg for the longest time, can't. By the logic of those people saying Axton is 'weak', I should call Krieg weak as well. But the difference is, I know that's just me, and not a universal truth.

When I played him, it didn't feel like he missed out the huge DPS and yeah we did talk about this in the other thread, but we discussed about Zer0 and Maya aswell. This thread is purely about Axton.

EDIT: Axton doesn't lack crowd control either (tho probably not as good as Maya. Again, I never play her). Didn't I mention you can go on a killing spree without taking damage if you use the turret the right way? I do it plenty of times.

[Tax Evasion]

From my experience Axton requires more preparation than any other toon.
He can prettymuch kill raid bosses in seconds, but usually this requires tons of min-maxing and a ton of setup.

Ultimately he also lacks that "wow factor" that the other toons have
Salvador can dual-wield guns
Maya can use m a g i c
Zero can become invisible and destroy enemies
Krieg runs around with an axe and bloodsplodes things
Gaige is meh imo
And Axton can throw a turret

Sorry this is a bit disorganized, and the last paragraph was dumbed down

[The Traveler]

Originally posted by Tax Evasion:

From my experience Axton requires more preparation than any other toon.
He can prettymuch kill raid bosses in seconds, but usually this requires tons of min-maxing and a ton of setup.

Ultimately he also lacks that "wow factor" that the other toons have
Salvador can dual-wield guns
Maya can use m a g i c
Zero can become invisible and destroy enemies
Krieg runs around with an axe and bloodsplodes things
Gaige is meh imo
And Axton can throw a turret

Sorry this is a bit disorganized, and the last paragraph was dumbed down

This actually makes sense. I guess people just find this character underwhelming.

[Fredericks of Cursewood]

I think a big part of it is that the notion of Axton is weak was when the game first came out. There have been numerous patches, buffs, and nerfs put into the game since then. In my own experience playing a grenade Axton with the Fastball, I can't imagine how much that one buff aided him over the other Vaulthunters.

As far as mobbing, I think he is as good if not better than the other Vaulthunters. I think Do of Die is best skill in being that it is a game changer for him. Being able to chuck grenades in FFYL allows the player to push the envelope so to speak. Getting a Second Wind and coming out with Onslaught and Bullet Storm active is really powerful. It really allows you to keep pressing forward at a fast rate and can keep his kill skills up for a long time.

[StreamWhenGuy]

Other characters do everything better, faster, more powerful than he does. Quite simple answer. I personally will play him when there is nothing left to make off of everyone else. And yeah, he's just "ooh that yet another soldier guy".

[CommanderDouchebag]

Originally posted by KamisantaLolz:

Other characters do everything better, faster, more powerful than he does.

Welp...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogwC9J45jyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNuyIqUmqnE

[StreamWhenGuy]

I meant without breaking your head, min-maxing and calculating like a crazy chinese, other characters do everything smoother and in an easier way. But whatever...

[The Traveler]

Originally posted by KamisantaLolz:

I meant without breaking your head, min-maxing and calculating like a crazy chinese, other characters do everything smoother and in an easier way. But whatever...

Did you not read what I just said? Every other vaulthunter doesn't do "everything" better, faster, more powerful than he does. I already said that Axton is the best vaulthunter with Grenades, Tediore Reloads, Assault Rifles (excluding jakobs ARs) and Rocket Launchers. You don't have to "calculate like a crazy chinese", good players do smart things without having do that. If you try to make a Grenade Zer0 build, it wouldn't go as smoothly as a Grenade Axton build.

[deadsmoke]

Originally posted by CommanderDouchebag:

Originally posted by KamisantaLolz:

Other characters do everything better, faster, more powerful than he does.

Welp...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogwC9J45jyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNuyIqUmqnE

I just tried to watch these videos, as soon as I clicked them Steam crashed....again:)

[trukr]

I always heard the Axton was the best balanced. Not overly deadly at one thing but not really weak in any. I don't like the character Axton, his wife should have shut up and executed him LOL

[The Traveler]

Originally posted by trukr:

I always heard the Axton was the best balanced. Not overly deadly at one thing but not really weak in any. I don't like the character Axton, his wife should have shut up and executed him LOL

Then you heard wrong.

[[R-K] WARLORD]

Originally posted by TrailDash:

Not long ago, I made a discussion containing a link to a poll asking which Borderlands 2 vaulthunter was the weakest. Here's the link to the discussion: https://steamcommunity.com/app/49520/discussions/0/3211505894120695546/

The most voted option was "None" but the second-most voted was Axton. Granted, I should've seen it coming, but still. Axton? He's strong!

Now I should tell you that I am an Axton main. You're probably like: "ERMGERD he's an axton fanboy in denial, murrr" but I actually know how to play him unlike most Salvador mains (lol) so before you comment why you think Axton is the weakest (some of you don't think that) Im gonna counter some arguments I heard from other people.

"Axton's action skill sucks. It does very little damage in UVHM and it dies so quickly"

You're not supposed to use it to kill enemies for you. You're supposed to have it distract and slag enemies for you, and when it does, the turret is very useful. Axton's "Longbow Turret" skill increases its health by a♥♥♥♥♥♥ton and lets you deploy the turret at any range (unless you're deploying the turret all the way from china) plus, you should kill the enemies the turret is distracting, otherwise the turret is gonna die quick. Use it right and you can go on a killing spree without taking any damage.

"Axton is a jack-of-all trades class. He is good at everything yet not the best at anything"

Axton sucks at melee and is the best vaulthunter with Grenades, Tediore reloads, Assault Rifles (excluding Jakobs Assault Rifles) and Rocket Launchers. He's also great with guns that get boosted by grenade damage boosts.

"Axton doesn't have an OP skill like every other character does"

He doesn't need it. His "OP skill" is his skill tree. You can get alot of DPS boosts from his skill tree. Plus, its not okay Zer0 can instakill bosses on OP8 with the starter pistol. "OP" isn't a good thing. OP = Overpowered. OP things should be nerfed so its balanced. Axton is balanced and still strong. For some reason, people think "Balanced" means "Weak" which is untrue. It just means Axton is powerful without needing to rely on broken mechanics.

"Axton has bad skills like Laser Sight, Duty Calls and Ranger"

Every character has bad skills nobody wants or need, so with that logic, every vaulthunter sucks.

"Axton doesn't have alot of viable builds compared to other vaulthunters"

Untrue. I could name several viable builds. There's Grenade Axton, Tediore Axton, Soldier Axton, Assault Rifle Axton, Gemini Axton, KillSkill Axton. There are plenty of Axton builds I haven't mentioned.

"Axton struggles with Raid Bosses"

Ummm no he doesn't. He can wreck plenty of raidbosses in a couple of seconds.



If you think Axton is the weakest, let me know why.

People think axton is weak because they are new to the game or they came from BL1 and they dont know how to actually build a character in bl2.

Bl2 is a harder game than BL1 period. Enemies have more hp, enemies do more damage, theres more things to keep track of ETC and you actually have to have some gear coordination at max level and OP levels.

I came from console and after playing a couple thousand hours on bl1 when i got bl2 on console i thought axton sucked because i didnt know how to play the game. But after 400ish hours on console and about 100 on pc i dont think any vault hunter is "weak" you just need to know how to build a gear set and a build.

Too many people playing bl2 who have never played any game like it or they think its like bl1 where you can literally just equip the highest damage weapon you have and run around and slaughter everything but thats not how it works and i think axton draws a lot of new players because of his similarity to roland so that is what causes the inflation of people who think he sucks.

[Necko]

Honestly, you can do just fine with him without the turret in a lot of scenarios. I've played him while spamming turrets everywhere, and with rarely using the turret, if at all.

While you can get away with not using your action skill on Gaige for example, I really wouldn't want to do it with Maya, Zero, or Sal. You could, but would you want to?

As someone else mentioned, Axton was considered the weakeest vaulthunter at release, and it may have been true then. That's another topic, but I think that label has stuck with him unril now. Once people get it in their heads that something is true, and many threads are made about it, the myth is difficult to shake. This goes for many things, not just Axton.

People believe what they read even if that information is ancient and wasn't even true when it was written. Some people repeat those things without even having experienced it themselves.

If you repeat a lie often enough....

[R. N. Gesus]

Originally posted by TrailDash:

"Axton doesn't have an OP skill like every other character does"

He doesn't need it. His "OP skill" is his skill tree. You can get alot of DPS boosts from his skill tree. Plus, its not okay Zer0 can instakill bosses on OP8 with the starter pistol. "OP" isn't a good thing. OP = Overpowered. OP things should be nerfed so its balanced. Axton is balanced and still strong. For some reason, people think "Balanced" means "Weak" which is untrue. It just means Axton is powerful without needing to rely on broken mechanics.

It's not other people misunderstanding words, it's you.

If everything else is OP in comparison, then Axton is simply the weakest. It doesn't mean he's too weak to play, but rather weaker compared to other characters. That's what the word weakest means.

Even a comparison between a few overpowered skills, is going to have a weakest skill, because that's how comparison and superlatives work. For something to be weakest, it doesn't necessarily even mean that something is considered generally weak. If we have 20 geniuses take an IQ test, someone should have the worst score, but that doesn't make it a bad score.