Why do people blame Lilith for Jack becoming a villain?

[Shard of Manus]

Over and over I'm seeing this same nonsense that "Lilith is to blame", it was all her fault, she caused it, Jack was a cool guy before she betrayed him etc.

... Just wat? Lilith, Roland and Moxxi destroyed the Eye, yeah okay, it was an incredibly dangerous weapon in the hands of an incredibly dangerous man. The ending of TPS was a bit iffy, because instead of just punching Jack, Lilith could've actually killed him - but even then, it hardly pushed him over the edge (he was already there).

Throughout all of TPS we see Jack as his relatively usual self. Executing the Meriff without a second thought, showing no guilt or reservations about destroying Felicity's AI, murdering the entire Helios Science team because just one of them might be a traitor...

Destroying the Eye was the right thing to do. Jack was already a paranoid maniac, and all this did was shift him a little on a path he was already well along. The vault incident simply spiralled him further down that route.

The only thing Lilith did wrong was to not kill Jack in the Vault on Elpis, instead she was just demonstrating to him that he'd lost with a little show of bravado and a nasty scar.

[SpaceSmoothboy]

How about: "Atttention, spoilers?"

[Charlie The Cheng]

Jack is actually a good friend according to Tale of Borderland ending. If you trust him he treat you well and keep his promise even when he can easily kill you and take it all, but if you betray him or don't trust him, you pay a price.

[Shard of Manus]

Originally posted by Schwebender Orb:

How about: "Atttention, spoilers?"

... for a five year old game?

[Loxly]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

Originally posted by Schwebender Orb:

How about: "Atttention, spoilers?"

... for a five year old game?

doesn't matter, just make a spoiler warning please, i just bought a game cz its on sale and started playing with my friend recently.

[SpaceSmoothboy]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

Originally posted by Schwebender Orb:

How about: "Atttention, spoilers?"

... for a five year old game?

I don't see how the age of the game plays a role here. I wouldn't like to get an old 80s movie spoilered, too.

[trukr]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

Originally posted by Schwebender Orb:

How about: "Atttention, spoilers?"

... for a five year old game?

There ARE people still buying these game who have never played them.

[trukr]

Jack was a bad person even in the first one, you never talked to him, but he was manipulating you through his daughter.

[Alucard †]

I accidently spoilered TPS for myself long time ago and curiosity got the best of me.

Lilith seems like a wild card not necessary evil but not 100% good or sane either. That gurl has some demons in her..

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

I accidently spoilered TPS for myself long time ago and curiosity got the best of me.

Lilith seems like a wild card not necessary evil but not 100% good or sane either. That gurl has some demons in her..

She's one of six Sirens in the universe. In many ways particularly in the ways of war they don't behave completely like humans. We finally begin to understand the ways of the Sirens in BL3 below the city of Promethia [/spoler]

[EchoDahrk]

i'm pretty sure he turned bad due to his grandma abusing him and maybe losing his wife.. but that's questionable... he wasn't bad at first cuz he was like every pandoran ... none of them are good.. but the type of good that is acceptable for them, at least.. but was he really good? ofc not.

but, the vault made him greedy and you can see him become psychotic when ur getting to the end of tps .. but when moxxi ,lilith and roland did what they did .. he completely lost it.

why was he the hero? cuz he wanted to clean out pandora from murderers and bandits .. and colonize that ♥♥♥♥ hole ... although i'm pretty sure that wasn't the real plan behind the scenes ..but, pandora does need cleaning as no one is good other than the afraid citizens on it.

but he did it the wrong way , cuz again, he was psychotic.. he killed innocent ppl in the process too.. abused his own child... etc

so is he a hero? NO .. but he was definitley the hero pandora needed, at least for a while, if he actually intended on cleaning pandora.

personally, i believe he was good way before tps or bl1 .. he had just been hurt a lot to the point where he said ♥♥♥♥ people .. i'm the best! cuz, basically every villain was tourtured before they become the villain.. it's the classic origins of every villain.. other than psychopaths.
there for i believe jack is a sociopath... not a psychopath. a made villain .. not born a villain.
it doesn't excuse anythting he did though.

but lilith is not a good person either.. shes a ♥♥♥♥♥, and you can expect her to turn into a villain in the future too.

[Aleksi]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

... for a five year old game?

There ARE people still buying these game who have never played them.

Then why read discussion forum?

[trukr]

Originally posted by Lord of Thunder:

Originally posted by trukr:

There ARE people still buying these game who have never played them.

Then why read discussion forum?

OK, think on that a bit, I'm pretty sure you can think of some reasons.

[SpaceSmoothboy]

Originally posted by Lord of Thunder:

Originally posted by trukr:

There ARE people still buying these game who have never played them.

Then why read discussion forum?

Lol, there are also threads about other topics you dumbass

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

Over and over I'm seeing this same nonsense that "Lilith is to blame", it was all her fault, she caused it, Jack was a cool guy before she betrayed him etc.

... Just wat? Lilith, Roland and Moxxi destroyed the Eye, yeah okay, it was an incredibly dangerous weapon in the hands of an incredibly dangerous man. The ending of TPS was a bit iffy, because instead of just punching Jack, Lilith could've actually killed him - but even then, it hardly pushed him over the edge (he was already there).

Throughout all of TPS we see Jack as his relatively usual self. Executing the Meriff without a second thought, showing no guilt or reservations about destroying Felicity's AI, murdering the entire Helios Science team because just one of them might be a traitor...

Destroying the Eye was the right thing to do. Jack was already a paranoid maniac, and all this did was shift him a little on a path he was already well along. The vault incident simply spiralled him further down that route.

The only thing Lilith did wrong was to not kill Jack in the Vault on Elpis, instead she was just demonstrating to him that he'd lost with a little show of bravado and a nasty scar.

Are you asking us for our opinions or requesting help with the game? Or something / anything? Did you play Lilith in BL1 + Maya in BL2 + have you played thru TOTB? That might help your understanding of the Siren class. And after that, by playing thru BL3 as Amara the Siren we learn a lot more about this exotic class.

About your comment, I'm confused about where you're seeing or hearing that "over and over I'm seeing ... that Lilith is to blame"? Can you please give us some ideas about why you posted that? I've played thru the whole 3-game series so far (+ TOTB) and logged nearly 9,000 hours but remain unclear about what you're on about? Thanks (y) PS And about Jack, you know he suffers from acrophobia & the rest of his backstory, right?

[Nakos]

People blame Lilith because they like Jack. They want to feel justified in liking him and that's easier for them if someone "made him evil".

They also don't like Lilith (because a lot of the time she's not all that "nice"), so she's a good "escape goat".

Most of them don't want to think about all the horrible things Jack does throughout the series The Eye of the Destroyer in BL:TPS being the most obvious, but hardly the only one.

Soo... wishful thinking, willingness to turn a blind eye to his failings and a convenient character to pin the blame on.