So what did Angel do to her mom?

[BuildTheWall]

Jack says that we don't know what she did to her mom and that this is why he had to do what he did to her, but does the game ever tell you what she did?

[CAM.Tbl.KPblCA]

In Tales From Borderlands Jack say little more about this.

[trukr]

I have always thought that Angel did nothing to her mother. I would think her mother refused to let Jack exploit her and Jack killed her. Then to avoid issues claimed Angel did it.

My reasoning.
What is Angel's Siren power, how would it affect people?
What mother would allow what Jack did (I know, what father would )?
Those who do horrid things often invent stuff to sooth their conscience, it's never their fault.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by trukr:

I have always thought that Angel did nothing to her mother. I would think her mother refused to let Jack exploit her and Jack killed her. Then to avoid issues claimed Angel did it.

My reasoning.
What is Angel's Siren power, how would it affect people?
What mother would allow what Jack did (I know, what father would )?
Those who do horrid things often invent stuff to sooth their conscience, it's never their fault.

Considering the other things we hear about what Jack did, and his "it's all about me" attitude, that's the most likely answer. It would also explain Angel's last words.

[Nakos]

Regardless of what happens (or does not happen) in Tales, it is far more likely that Angel had very little to do with whatever happened to her mother.

Far more likely, is that it's Jack's rationalization, both for why Angel's mother is no longer in the picture, and for why hey "had to" imprision (enslave) Angel.

Pretty much most of what Jack says is a lie. Pretty much constantly, in both BL2 and in BL:TPS.

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Regardless of what happens (or does not happen) in Tales, it is far more likely that Angel had very little to do with whatever happened to her mother.

Far more likely, is that it's Jack's rationalization, both for why Angel's mother is no longer in the picture, and for why hey "had to" imprision (enslave) Angel.

Pretty much most of what Jack says is a lie. Pretty much constantly, in both BL2 and in BL:TPS.

I have a hard time cancelling out what Telltale Games said in Tales. Gearbox has restated many times that it's Gearbox' game licensed to Telltale for this one episode with Gearbox' supervision, support and approval. First time you play BL2 and or TPS, if you've already played Tales, BL2/TPS will give you a special gift as a reward for your support.

Take a look at the Gearbox website - they promote Tales in equal measure to the other GBX titles, providing it with its own Forum and discussion of the story.

Personally - were it up to me, Nakos - I'd agree with you and feel Telltale's views are only of minor or secondary interest at best. But I had to reconsider that when friends called all of this out to me and really it's a lot of evidence. I just hope GBX doesn't alter BL3 to account for the Telltale plot - no big deal for me if they do cos I own Tales & can play it - but first time I tried, I don't think I made 20 minutes in before quitting cos it sucked LOL. Really boring & awkward gameplay, I thought.

PS To the OP I apologize for this comment which might look like an off-topic but I promise it's really not. BL1 BL2 & TPS players have been debating for years whether Tales is or isn't canon because the answer to that can frequently answer thought-provoking questions like your's about the first three games.

[BuildTheWall]

It's funny that people think Jack is the liar when Angel says that Jack is a coward who would never fight in person, and then the very next second Jack kills Roland.

[trukr]

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

It's funny that people think Jack is the liar when Angel says that Jack is a coward who would never fight in person, and then the very next second Jack kills Roland.

Yes, heroically shoots him in the back.

[BuildTheWall]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

It's funny that people think Jack is the liar when Angel says that Jack is a coward who would never fight in person, and then the very next second Jack kills Roland.

Yes, heroically shoots him in the back.

All is fair in war, but that's not the point. The point is Angel doesn't know Jack as well as she claims to. That plus her clear disregard for her own life shows she obviously has a few screws loose.

[trukr]

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

Originally posted by trukr:

Yes, heroically shoots him in the back.

All is fair in war, but that's not the point. The point is Angel doesn't know Jack as well as she claims to. That plus her clear disregard for her own life shows she obviously has a few screws loose.

Yes, she knows Jack better than you, in BL1 he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening the vault, knowing it was not loot and what would happen, this is where that statement came from. Jack did shoot one person face to face who had a gun, after that person pointed the gun at Jack and it failed to fire, in essence shooting an unarmed person. It's not about "fair", it's about the code monkey that murdered his way to the top of Hyperion. Don't forget, she had more experience with Jack than anyone, even Moxxie.

Jack even tells us that he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening that vault and said is was more fun tricking the current ones. Who was it that transformed a civilian station to a more or less military station? Turned bot made to load to weapons?

Where it is true that Angel had little regard for her life, well she was already as good as dead because the act of disconnecting her killed her. She was tired of that "life" and wished to be released. Try to imagine what "life" would be like in her shoes.

[BuildTheWall]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

All is fair in war, but that's not the point. The point is Angel doesn't know Jack as well as she claims to. That plus her clear disregard for her own life shows she obviously has a few screws loose.

Yes, she knows Jack better than you, in BL1 he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening the vault, knowing it was not loot and what would happen, this is where that statement came from. Jack did shoot one person face to face who had a gun, after that person pointed the gun at Jack and it failed to fire, in essence shooting an unarmed person. It's not about "fair", it's about the code monkey that murdered his way to the top of Hyperion. Don't forget, she had more experience with Jack than anyone, even Moxxie.

Jack even tells us that he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening that vault and said is was more fun tricking the current ones. Who was it that transformed a civilian station to a more or less military station? Turned bot made to load to weapons?

Where it is true that Angel had little regard for her life, well she was already as good as dead because the act of disconnecting her killed her. She was tired of that "life" and wished to be released. Try to imagine what "life" would be like in her shoes.

You forgot to actually put an argument anywhere in there, or even an explanation as to how she could be so wrong. It's quite obvious that she has an emotional issue which is making her illogical, and that is why she is so completely wrong and untrustworthy.

And when you kill your mom you don't get to have a life of freedom. That's just common sense.

[trukr]

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

Originally posted by trukr:

Yes, she knows Jack better than you, in BL1 he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening the vault, knowing it was not loot and what would happen, this is where that statement came from. Jack did shoot one person face to face who had a gun, after that person pointed the gun at Jack and it failed to fire, in essence shooting an unarmed person. It's not about "fair", it's about the code monkey that murdered his way to the top of Hyperion. Don't forget, she had more experience with Jack than anyone, even Moxxie.

Jack even tells us that he tricked the Vault Hunters in to opening that vault and said is was more fun tricking the current ones. Who was it that transformed a civilian station to a more or less military station? Turned bot made to load to weapons?

Where it is true that Angel had little regard for her life, well she was already as good as dead because the act of disconnecting her killed her. She was tired of that "life" and wished to be released. Try to imagine what "life" would be like in her shoes.

You forgot to actually put an argument anywhere in there, or even an explanation as to how she could be so wrong. It's quite obvious that she has an emotional issue which is making her illogical, and that is why she is so completely wrong and untrustworthy.

And when you kill your mom you don't get to have a life of freedom. That's just common sense.

Are you totally daft? Ignoring what I post is not going to make it go away, I did explain. It is you that has had no argument.

[BuildTheWall]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

You forgot to actually put an argument anywhere in there, or even an explanation as to how she could be so wrong. It's quite obvious that she has an emotional issue which is making her illogical, and that is why she is so completely wrong and untrustworthy.

And when you kill your mom you don't get to have a life of freedom. That's just common sense.

Are you totally daft? Ignoring what I post is not going to make it go away, I did explain. It is you that has had no argument.

No you literally did not.

[trukr]

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

Originally posted by trukr:

Are you totally daft? Ignoring what I post is not going to make it go away, I did explain. It is you that has had no argument.

No you literally did not.

I literally did explain why she called Jack a coward. You have done nothing but make assumptions about Angel's trustworthiness. Jack has been demonstrated to be a pathological liar. Angel on the other hand was compelled to do his bidding, or do you not remember her cries when he caught her actually trying to help.

Even if someone kills their mother, what Angel went through is wrong, or don't you see that.

[BuildTheWall]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by BuildTheWall:

No you literally did not.

I literally did explain why she called Jack a coward. You have done nothing but make assumptions about Angel's trustworthiness. Jack has been demonstrated to be a pathological liar. Angel on the other hand was compelled to do his bidding, or do you not remember her cries when he caught her actually trying to help.

Even if someone kills their mother, what Angel went through is wrong, or don't you see that.

She made an incorrect statement, and your "explanation" only serves to further prove that she is wrong. Do you not even grasp the point of contention here?

And no, she is quite lucky to be even alive after killing her mom. She has no room to complain in that regard.

[Zen_Disaster]

uh oh ... canon debates ... lord spare us LOL