Avoiding Common Loot Increases Rare Loot Drops?

[✿ Blinky ☻]

A friend first noted that this might be a possibility, akin to how I understand the Diablo games determine a rare item drop.
The theory is that if you make a point of never picking up white, green or even blue items from world drops, it increases the likelihood of rarer loot dropping from enemies, chests and piles.

I've had trouble trying to determine this. Personally, I'm a compulsive looter, to the point where I'll run all the way back to a vending machine to sell excess loot when by backpack fills up, no matter how far away the machine is at the time.
Only recently have I stuck to only picking up blue or rarer items, and surprisingly it feels like I'm having slightly better luck?

My friend reports they're also seemingly finding legendary or e-tech weapons a bit more regularly, specifically in the second play-through and later.

Of course, this luck may still be coincidence. Due to how similar the rarity scale is to Diablo's though, has anyone else ever noticed a similar pattern when only looting rarer items?

Thanks for reading, and stay badass, ye salty cogs

[trukr]

I have gotten to the point that on my main I don't pick up anything (unless is it useful to me) and I don't feel I am seeing more rare drops. Maybe the RNG is not pleased with me, don't know.

[Draekus]

like trukr, i also just pick up what's useful or, in rare instances i pick up something i want to try out. something i don't normally use, just to see if it fits with my Character and Playstyle.

[Nakos]

I'm pretty sure that whatever you do, or do not pick up has nothing to do with what drops.

But let's check with Paul Hellquist...

http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/2013/09/inside-the-box-the-borderlands-2-loot-system/
http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/2013/09/inside-the-box-evolution-of-loot/

[Sirius]

Yeah, also pretty certain the numbers are fixed.

I happen to know a bit about how such systems work, and mostly (and, on topic, like 98% certain BL2 does use such a system) they have a simple chance number applied to world spawns. If you open a chest, invisible dice are rolled, and when it procs, something good is pulled from the possible loot table, and that's it.

Meaning wether or not you open the chest doesn't matter since every chest is sperately rolled for.

So really, the player has no influence on the actual roll, meaning whatever the player does, the roll decides upon activating the thing that can contain something on what is in there.

[Evelmunky]

It's random. it's not like if so many white drop and so many green drop, then a blue will drop. things have a chance to drop off anything, if they don't it doesn't increase your chance of it dropping off the next mob. its just random chance

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Yeah, also pretty certain the numbers are fixed.

I happen to know a bit about how such systems work, and mostly (and, on topic, like 98% certain BL2 does use such a system) they have a simple chance number applied to world spawns. If you open a chest, invisible dice are rolled, and when it procs, something good is pulled from the possible loot table, and that's it.

Meaning wether or not you open the chest doesn't matter since every chest is sperately rolled for.

So really, the player has no influence on the actual roll, meaning whatever the player does, the roll decides upon activating the thing that can contain something on what is in there.

^ This. Thanks Siriu - for the reason mentioned do you anticipate BL3's being developed on Unreal's new UE4 will result in any substantial changes to this game mechanic? I doubt it but know it's worth asking for your thoughts.

[Gonzo_o0]

There *could* be ways to alter the loot tables positively fo you but that sort of feature is usually tied to completing content in a game. For example, if you kill X amount of baddies in a given map, if you clear this or that under Y amount time without dying, etc., you get to roll from table B instead of A on mini-boss fight (just an example...). Not saying it's present in the game, just saying it could be... Anyways, Loot tables for BL2 are now public, yes?

As a user, proving that such a mechanic is present is basically impossible because of the nature of the mechanic (rng) and since there are an infinite amount of possible conditions that can be applied, anywhere in the game. My guess is that *some* of the game's areas/content have a Loot mechanic such as the one i'm describing, but that's just me talking out of my a$$, I have no proof of this. Not willing to prove it either. Thus, I'm playing the game assuming that Loot is fixed.

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by Deriveur:

There *could* be ways to alter the loot tables positively fo you but that sort of feature is usually tied to completing content in a game. For example, if you kill X amount of baddies in a given map, if you clear this or that under Y amount time without dying, etc., you get to roll from table B instead of A on mini-boss fight (just an example...). Not saying it's present in the game, just saying it could be... Anyways, Loot tables for BL2 are now public, yes?

As a user, proving that such a mechanic is present is basically impossible because of the nature of the mechanic (rng) and since there are an infinite amount of possible conditions that can be applied, anywhere in the game. My guess is that *some* of the game's areas/content have a Loot mechanic such as the one i'm describing, but that's just me talking out of my a$$, I have no proof of this. Not willing to prove it either. Thus, I'm playing the game assuming that Loot is fixed.

Whether you know it or not, you've described the most popular method used by the game's most popular third-party modding program to change the game's score to the player's advantage ("there could be ways to alter..." - actually this is the popular way in CE). CE can do many other things as well, although because the developers don't support modding in the BL series, it's incapable of actually changing anything in BL2 aside from weapons & a character's number counts (money, level, et al).

The game's constraint that you mention of RNG can thus be "defeated" if a player is fluent enough in Hex Editing, understands the functions & parameters of CE and wants to install one or more such open source programs for BL2 to interact with his game & system (as well as the games & systems of team mates he might host in coop - an unintended but real effect that pretty much limits CE-enabled installations to solo play or for coop if team mates approve its presence).

To answer your questions about loot pools / mechanics, your guess is mostly correct - loot tables for BL2 & TPS were made public within weeks of the games' release dates years ago, have been refined since then & are typically detailed on MSFT or GOOG spreadsheets. Certain loot pools are fixed within their outside parameters for what GBX calls 'quest-specific rewards' (e.g. somewheres from somethings) where other loot pools can amount to what GBX calls 'world drops' (e.g. anywhere from anything which I've always guessed represents instances of true or total RNG).

[Gonzo_o0]

Originally posted by Zen_Disaster:

Whether you know it or not, you've described the most popular method used by the game's most popular third-party modding program to change the game's score to the player's advantage ("there could be ways to alter..." - actually this is the popular way in CE).

I'm not familiar with CE and with what it does but I wasn't talking of ways to circumvent the game's mechanics via outside manipulation (if I understand its use correctly from what you described )but rather "events" that could've been hard-coded in the game, intended and by design, to alter loot tables when the specific conditions were met. Not sure if this is related to CE or not.

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by Deriveur:

Originally posted by Zen_Disaster:

Whether you know it or not, you've described the most popular method used by the game's most popular third-party modding program to change the game's score to the player's advantage ("there could be ways to alter..." - actually this is the popular way in CE).

I'm not familiar with CE and with what it does but I wasn't talking of ways to circumvent the game's mechanics via outside manipulation (if I understand its use correctly from what you described )but rather "events" that could've been hard-coded in the game, intended and by design, to alter loot tables when the specific conditions were met. Not sure if this is related to CE or not.

Thanks for the explanation - I couldn't understand what you were referring to at first but know your writing style well enough that you'd call cheating by its rightful name lol. That's why I opened my comments giving you the benefit of the doubt with my respectful preface "Whether you know it or not ...". Your explanation now clear, you can disregard my description of parts of CE (the poorly named Cheat Engine program) as they're not precisely applicable to your comments.

[Gonzo_o0]

Originally posted by Zen_Disaster:

Thanks for the explanation - I couldn't understand what you were referring to at first but know your writing style well enough that you'd call cheating by its rightful name lol.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. English is my second language and its use is weird where I'm from. In the same sentence, it can be commonly used at a 50/50 ratio with another local language, creating problems with some idiomatic expressions, regionalisms and innacurate translation and syntax.

[Zen_Disaster]

Originally posted by Deriveur:

Originally posted by Zen_Disaster:

Thanks for the explanation - I couldn't understand what you were referring to at first but know your writing style well enough that you'd call cheating by its rightful name lol.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. English is my second language and its use is weird where I'm from. In the same sentence, it can be commonly used at a 50/50 ratio with another local language, creating problems with some idiomatic expressions, regionalisms and innacurate translation and syntax.

Am well aware. Although I'm American, I've lived & worked in many countries overseas where literally no one speaks any of the western European languages. I married a foreigner as did our son & daugher with one result being that my grandkids & I don't speak much English together -
why should they? They're French in my daughter's case and Swiss in my son's. But it's never caused me insurmountable problems - I'm crystal clear that English is arguably the most complex, convoluted & nonsensical language of all the western European languages for non-native speakers to learn. Native English speakers after all are so diverse globally that it stands to reason there are so many incongruous dialects.

[Sirius]

Originally posted by Zen_Disaster:

^ This. Thanks Siriu - for the reason mentioned do you anticipate BL3's being developed on Unreal's new UE4 will result in any substantial changes to this game mechanic? I doubt it but know it's worth asking for your thoughts.

Also doubt it. The used engine has nothing to do with it like at all, it's on the devs to come up with a loot system to implement.

I would think it won't change much apart from some extra rules, and even then only if they actually try being fresh. And since it's 'just' the next iteration of the engine, I suppose they will just transfer most mechanics untouched / slightly adjusted.

Mostly I'm apprehensive that they will just use lootboxes with paid keys, essentially not even coming up with a new system. Just chance rolls to get something for real money out of dropped boxes instead of a world click. Probably even using the color system so as to sell more than one type of key at different price ranges.

Because whoever actually makes the game will do so under a publisher's umbrella, and this franchise has simply gotten too 'big' (as in well known) - I find it hard to believe the suits would care about game quality instead of MOAR PROFIT. And that's my issue, really - Games are generally controlled by suits and ties, not by actual people who know what makes a good game.

And while this would at least to some degree suppress those gibbers and lazy people (because you know they will be monitoring the forums to see if someone offers free crap they could be paid for), this will also pretty much kill the game for me.

I will personally just wait for release / actual news though, but I really anticipate greed will be the motivating factor of BL3. Very much so. It will suck so hard.

Then again, I really hope to be proven wrong. I honestly do.

Can go either way, really.
But back on point: the loot system itself?
My money is on 'the exact same with possible slight alterations' or, sadly, on 'lootboxes - key price set by rarity'.

Because the mechanics are already there - you can basically view the golden keys and the chest as sort of 'entry level lootboxing' to test the waters. I actually start to believe the golden chest is exactly that - an early test of the lootbox mechanic.

Again, I SO hope I'm wrong, though.

[Sirius]

Got a lump in my stomach now. The more I think about it, the more terrifying that golden chest is.
SHIFT account could be a way to control / monitor key use and sales...

It's the framework for lootboxes, plain as day.

I don't want to think this, but the voices are very clear about it.

[trukr]

Well, with all this optimistic talk about Borderlands 3, I won't be disappointed or shocked if it has loot boxes and always online anti cheat. I won't buy it either.

They did the always logged in online for BATTLEBORN and I have failed to get a server, for single player, no thanks.

I pretty much hate anti cheat stuff, there is always a down side, would rather deal with cheaters that crap that is not game code in the game. For PVP, I grudgingly admit it is useful, but not in this.