Too little damage

[stan.klingenbart]

Hi,

after 3 years of absence in honour of the upcoming BL3 i replayed Pre-Sequel and am atm playing BL2 as Zer0.

I'm around lv 10 now and just did a little in Sanctuary, but compared to Pre-Sequel it seems i do little to no damage with guns... when fighting bullymongs i have to empty like 20 bullets into one adult, whilst the rest of them kills me... moreover stuff like nomads even survive Sniped Headshots. I DID manage to beat Flynt with the help of Killing Bl0w...

In Presequel i deliberately played Cl4pTP without farming any legendaries and it worked fine (complicated sometimes).
But here it seems impossible, yet after aquiring the Harold, everything went kinda ridicoulously easy...

So is there a middle ground? i dont want to believe, that at such an early level builds or gear should matter that much... Or may this be a Zer0 exclusive Problem (3 years ago i also had problems with him, yet i thought it was due to my inexperience, and it got easier once you got the milestones)

[Casurin]

What level are your enemies, waht level/stats are your guns?
Normally bullymongs are rather easy to kill.

[Renfrew]

Lol TPS is a joke in terms of difficulty, the whole game is basically a DLC add-on for BL2 with EZ mode.

Despite this, Normal Mode on BL2 is not difficult, you are playing as Zer0 who just like Krieg and Gaige has a high learning curve.

[stan.klingenbart]

The Weapons are Lv 6 the enemies from 6-8.

I have the Sniper from Hammerlock and a Torgue Pistol with around 40 Damage. Yet it takes forever to kill even one of these Apes :/
Still it should be possible to play without using/farming legendaries, shouldn't it?

Or is Zer0 THAT specific, that he cant do without special equipment (Like the Rubi or the Love Thumper)

[Renfrew]

Who said anything about specific equipment? Zer0 has a high learning curve, in other words, he is much harder to learn how to use effectively. No vault hunter requires Legendaries or specific gear on Normal Mode or TVHM; UVHM is where that sort of thing starts to matter.

Zer0 can deal high damage to a single target, especially through the use of Decpti0n, however he has the worst self-sustainability, even at max level. Furthermore, he is bad at crowd control, so when he gets surrounded he is even more vulnerable. Due to this, you have to plan your attacks more carefully instead of trying to tank everything and go in rambo style. TPS is pretty much the opposite, you can run in and do whatever you want, even the UVHM on TPS is hardly a challenge.

[stan.klingenbart]

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Who said anything about specific equipment? Zer0 has a high learning curve, in other words, he is much harder to learn how to use effectively. No vault hunter requires Legendaries or specific gear on Normal Mode or TVHM; UVHM is where that sort of thing starts to matter.

Zer0 can deal high damage to a single target, especially through the use of Decpti0n, however he has the worst self-sustainability, even at max level. Furthermore, he is bad at crowd control, so when he gets surrounded he is even more vulnerable. Due to this, you have to plan your attacks more carefully instead of trying to tank everything and go in rambo style. TPS is pretty much the opposite, you can run in and do whatever you want, even the UVHM on TPS is hardly a challenge.

Well when i last played him 3 years ago,i didnt know any better and muscled through till i got to stuff like Executi0n, which made things a little easier,yet without stuff like the Law it still would not have worked, as the melee damage would have been too smal. thats what i meant with special equipment (although not Legendary i admit). and healing was also impossible without the Order or Rubi. So i think with the right stuff (like Pimpernel, Law, Rapier, Roid Shields) Zer0 CAN be OP, yet without it he seems to struggle, doesnt he?

but now i struggle, as i CAN kill one of them with sniping and another one with a deception melee, yet then there already 3 other ape team up and cant be killed fast enough to not get hits and withput health regen its kinda hard. On the other hand with the Unkempt Harold i fire like 3 rounds and theyre all gone - Rambo style as you call it.

[Renfrew]

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

what i meant with special equipment (although not Legendary i admit). and healing was also impossible without the Order or Rubi

I did address that:

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

No vault hunter requires Legendaries or specific gear on Normal Mode or TVHM; UVHM is where that sort of thing starts to matter.

I can't stress that enough. There are players here who do runs with WHITE only gear and NO SKILL POINTS.

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

On the other hand with the Unkempt Harold i fire like 3 rounds and theyre all gone - Rambo style as you call it.

How would you get a UKH so early in the game? Lol, seems to me you gibbed it... If you don't want to take the time to learn Zer0 properly, and instead gib equipment, feel free, but stop blaming the game.

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

but now i struggle, as i CAN kill one of them with sniping and another one with a deception melee, yet then there already 3 other ape team up and cant be killed fast enough to not get hits and withput health regen its kinda hard.

You have literally proven what I have already said:

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Zer0 can deal high damage to a single target, especially through the use of Decpti0n, however he has the worst self-sustainability, even at max level. Furthermore, he is bad at crowd control, so when he gets surrounded he is even more vulnerable. Due to this, you have to plan your attacks more carefully instead of trying to tank everything and go in rambo style.

So it seems the problem IS the fact that you are struggling with Zer0's learning curve. Stop blaming the game, and take the time to learn Zer0.

[stan.klingenbart]

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

what i meant with special equipment (although not Legendary i admit). and healing was also impossible without the Order or Rubi

I did address that:

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

No vault hunter requires Legendaries or specific gear on Normal Mode or TVHM; UVHM is where that sort of thing starts to matter.

I can't stress that enough. There are players here who do runs with WHITE only gear and NO SKILL POINTS.

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

On the other hand with the Unkempt Harold i fire like 3 rounds and theyre all gone - Rambo style as you call it.

How would you get a UKH so early in the game? Lol, seems to me you gibbed it... If you don't want to take the time to learn Zer0 properly, and instead gib equipment, feel free, but stop blaming the game.

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

but now i struggle, as i CAN kill one of them with sniping and another one with a deception melee, yet then there already 3 other ape team up and cant be killed fast enough to not get hits and withput health regen its kinda hard.

You have literally proven what I have already said:

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Zer0 can deal high damage to a single target, especially through the use of Decpti0n, however he has the worst self-sustainability, even at max level. Furthermore, he is bad at crowd control, so when he gets surrounded he is even more vulnerable. Due to this, you have to plan your attacks more carefully instead of trying to tank everything and go in rambo style.

So it seems the problem IS the fact that you are struggling with Zer0's learning curve. Stop blaming the game, and take the time to learn Zer0.

Ehhhm after you got to Sanctuary you go to the area where reiss was and find Savage Lee there and get the Harold from him O.o it's possible like 1 hour into the game. but thanks for insinuating that i cheat.

And that " Don't blame the game" stuff is not helpful at all, it's not that i can't get through the game it's that i'd like to get through it without cheap stuff like Harold. So I don't blame the game for anything and you don't have to be its advocate...

i'd like to have some insight from someone familiar with the game... " lol "

[Renfrew]

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

Ehhhm after you got to Sanctuary you go to the area where reiss was and find Savage Lee there and get the Harold from him O.o it's possible like 1 hour into the game. but thanks for insinuating that i cheat.

And that " Don't blame the game" stuff is not helpful at all, it's not that i can't get through the game it's that i'd like to get through it without cheap stuff like Harold. So I don't blame the game for anything and you don't have to be its advocate...

so i'd like to have some insight from someone familiar with the game... " lol "

I see, so you wasted time farming Lee, because you were struggling, that's just sad...

Your whole premise in this paragraph is a contradiction... You say you can get through the game, but then proceed to blame the game saying that you need to use "cheap" equipment to get through it. The funniest part here is that you are struggling on Normal Mode, and yet apparently you have some experience playing the game, no idea how someone like you will manage double HP in TVHM and quadruple in UVHM.

I am very familiar with the game, you have been given advice, and you literally proved my point, let's not forget that:

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

but now i struggle, as i CAN kill one of them with sniping and another one with a deception melee, yet then there already 3 other ape team up and cant be killed fast enough to not get hits and withput health regen its kinda hard.

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Zer0 can deal high damage to a single target, especially through the use of Decpti0n, however he has the worst self-sustainability, even at max level. Furthermore, he is bad at crowd control, so when he gets surrounded he is even more vulnerable. Due to this, you have to plan your attacks more carefully instead of trying to tank everything and go in rambo style.

So it seems to me if you paint out a scenario, that plays out EXACTLY how I predicted you would be playing Zer0, then I clearly know way more than you. I have been playing since 360, and as far as I am concerned you are the one asking for help, not me, despite the fact that you claim to have played the game before! :P

At this stage in the game your best bet is to spec like this:
https://bl2skills.com/assassin.html#000000000050000000003250000000

Killing Bl0w can help you finish off low HP enemies (especially handy against bosses), much better than any gun. Although Ir0n Hand is a trash skill on UVHM due to the melee damage bonus being additive, on Normal Mode and TVHM that extra HP is useful for survivability. Grim provides survivability, your action skill is your best method of escaping and assists with crowd control due to the holographic decoy distracting enemies, so consequently having that cooldown rate will let you use it more often, and the shield regeneration will assist in keeping you alive. Fast hands gives you reload speed, and if you happen to find a slag weapon the swap speed is helpful. After level 20 you can easily spec however you want, speccing other ways prior to level 20 makes the game much harder, again because of Zer0's high learning curve.

Here's even more advice. If you don't want to take the advice, and want to instead continue to whine about the game that is your problem. "lol"

[Casurin]

Sorry, but at your level with that equipment all but badasses and bosses die oneshot from a sniper to the critspot (there are no crystalisks at that point yet).

It seems to me you just use any white normal weapon and hope to somehow kill the enemy with you just spray enough.
But even that would actually be more than enough to kill those early enemies.


Edit: Just tried it.
A lvl 9 Gunzerker (but at this points skills dont really matter and i used none)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1824717334
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1824717282
This is in 3hornsDivide, right before sancturary, in the bullymong-nest with some lvl 6-8 Bullies. i went straight in and just spraid with the pistol - no problem.
With the Shotgun i did the same - 2 adult Bully, lvl 8, and some of the flying buggers - i got into Fight4yourLife once and thats it. no need for hard trying, and this is a low-level Shotgun that is as bad as it gets with just a SINGLE shot before reload.

if you claim you have to empty an entire clip to kill one bully with a gun that deals twice the damage of the one i used, and i could kill multiple of them.... yeah, that shows the problem is between the keyboard and chair cause hell i am certainly not a good player.

[Soren]

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

Originally posted by stan.klingenbart:

On the other hand with the Unkempt Harold i fire like 3 rounds and theyre all gone - Rambo style as you call it.

How would you get a UKH so early in the game? Lol, seems to me you gibbed it... If you don't want to take the time to learn Zer0 properly, and instead gib equipment, feel free, but stop blaming the game.

Savage Lee is probably the answer. Feels like Savage Lee has a 50% drop rate on the gun. I remember getting 3 low lvl oranges from him nearly back to back (might have killed 4 Lees for 3 oranges, hard to remember), two being UKH and one being that Infinity Pistol thingy.

[Renfrew]

Originally posted by Casurin:

Sorry, but at your level with that equipment all but badasses and bosses die oneshot from a sniper to the critspot (there are no crystalisks at that point yet).

It seems to me you just use any white normal weapon and hope to somehow kill the enemy with you just spray enough.
But even that would actually be more than enough to kill those early enemies.

I told him exactly that, he is in denial...

Originally posted by Casurin:

Edit: Just tried it.
A lvl 9 Gunzerker (but at this points skills dont really matter and i used none)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1824717334
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1824717282
This is in 3hornsDivide, right before sancturary, in the bullymong-nest with some lvl 6-8 Bullies. i went straight in and just spraid with the pistol - no problem.
With the Shotgun i did the same - 2 adult Bully, lvl 8, and some of the flying buggers - i got into Fight4yourLife once and thats it. no need for hard trying, and this is a low-level Shotgun that is as bad as it gets with just a SINGLE shot before reload.

if you claim you have to empty an entire clip to kill one bully with a gun that deals twice the damage of the one i used, and i could kill multiple of them.... yeah, that shows the problem is between the keyboard and chair cause hell i am certainly not a good player.

He is playing Zer0, by the way, but still good points about how effective weapons are.

Originally posted by BK201Soren:

Savage Lee is probably the answer. Feels like Savage Lee has a 50% drop rate on the gun. I remember getting 3 low lvl oranges from him nearly back to back (might have killed 4 Lees for 3 oranges, hard to remember), two being UKH and one being that Infinity Pistol thingy.

Yeah I forget he exists, since the Torgue DLC is a thing (EZ Torgue Legendaries), and why would you even need a Harold early game? The early game is already easy without putting it on baby mode.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by ꧁Renfrew꧂:

He is playing Zer0, by the way, but still good points about how effective weapons are.

I know, but at thias point it doesn't really matter. At lvl 9 you got what - 5 points in total? one of which is for the action-skill. And i went for the Rampage (middle)-tree mostly magazine-size - which makes barely any difference. And of course i didn't use gunzerk, and i haven't spent most of my badass-tokens either (i have a couple hundred unspent).

So at that point there is a negligible difference between characters - and he could use deception with his Zero.
(But that just further shows that he is lying - the Bullymongs are easy enemies).

And i just tested it with a lvl 2 Imflammatory Aegis:
White, 15 damage, 12 fire/15% chance, magsize 6, consumes 2 ammo per shot.
took a couple of shots per bully but was still no problem. Fireweapons are good, but FFS, it is lvl 2, and he says he is lvl 10 and supposedly has problems.

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

Depends what you are trying to do with zero. He's pretty squeeshy compared to other characters, when you start taking damage you need to run for cover... that's about the only difference at low level without much skills available. Though one thing you should avoid with zero early game is trying to go melee, unless you know what your doing. Melee is heavily gear and skill dependant.

But with guns there's no reason why you would need that much ammos to kill normal ennemies at all unless you shoot completely off the targets or fight ennemies with a level way higher than your weapons are.

[stan.klingenbart]

Pheeew i'm glad that people don't get triggered easy around here, otherwise i would have to read endless paragraphs about how i'm imagining things when i shoot somebody in the head and he doesn't die.... talking about denial

btw it was a Green-Rarity Jacobs Sniper rifle, so actually nothing tooo shabby. And these nomad enemies apparently are bulkier than you think.

And i already played the game including Walkthrough 2.5, yet just not Gear Independent. Later it gets way easier as one accesses Zer0s better skills.

Sniping Solo just isn't as useful here as it was in the other 2 Games, i forgot that, made the same mistake 3 years ago. As enemies like to spawn right behind you

[stan.klingenbart]

Originally posted by ゴリ博士:

Depends what you are trying to do with zero. He's pretty squeeshy compared to other characters, when you start taking damage you need to run for cover... that's about the only difference at low level without much skills available. Though one thing you should avoid with zero early game is trying to go melee, unless you know what your doing. Melee is heavily gear and skill dependant.

But with guns there's no reason why you would need that much ammos to kill normal ennemies at all unless you shoot completely off the targets or fight ennemies with a level way higher than your weapons are.

The first real helping Person. And you're right, i ditched the Killing Bl0w, as it was strong, yet it lured one to run into the enemy blindly to get the sweet bonus damage. Now at the Firehawk campment only the Club Badasses were a littlebit of a "problem" (meaning they tank about 8 headshots with a Blue rarity Hyperion Rifle), yet they were slow and came one by one. I put the Harold in the Bank, and use a more decent shotgun now (from these assassins) than the one i had before, it works, even though its quite ammo intensive still