Why everyone hate Lilith?!

[Victini Trainer]

Okay I heard it all. Handsome Jack good. He was a hero until Lilith punched him. But are you forgetting he enslaved his daughter before BL1 and he been planning all this way before BL1? BLTPS was supposed to make to see a side of Jack and make you believe he was good. That was the point. The closer you got,the more you see the true Jack. Plus it was Moxxie who hired Lilith and Roland to stop Jack. People believe Jack would would have done great things, No I don't see that at all. He was twisted already. He was already mad for power. He just got worse. Don't blame Lilith, Blame Moxxie. But don't Blame her too. Jack was evil. Everyone saw it who knew him. Moxxie knew well. The game did it's job. It made you like Jack and it convinced you hat he was good at the start. It was good writing, But I think it made some fans alittle blind to the facts in BL2.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Victini Trainer:

Jack was evil. Everyone saw it who knew him.

Well he wasn't - simple as that.
TPS depics why jack became obsessed with power, why he became so ruthless, but he wasn't evil.
In BL2 it is still jack that tries to bring back law and order to Pandora. The crimson Raiders - as the name already tells you - are criminals. heck, that is even the very first thing you learn about them and Sancutaury form them self.

Jacks methods are tyranical and he is willing to sacrifice quite a few people for the perceived greater good, but claiming he is evil?

Lilith and the other vaulthunters are just as ruthless, just as willing to go over corpses on mass.

[Victini Trainer]

Okay saying The crimson raiders are criminals is so unfair. They were soldiers and they're are fighting to protect people and fight bandits, They are not perfect. Borderlands isn't all pony and rainbows. Plus walking all over corpse? Again it's gameplay. You're killing bandits! You're not killing children and unarmed people. Lilith is flawed yes but they are not mindless killers. Brick got kicked out because his anger got the best of him. He was starting to act and be like a bandit. Say something new and don't repeat what everyone says. Excuse the gameplay for the lack of story on how the characters feel about mass slaughter on bandits. Claptrap even jokes on that.

[Osamaru]

Lets be honest, Roland and Angel where probably some of the only few NOT Insane characters in the whole Series.

[Rider of Retarded Lion Prince]

If jack get controll of pandora: killing half the planet and bring peace to the rest
If vault hunter kill jack: pandora go in to anarchy as bandits lord will rule over area and go to war to muder everyone not bending the knee to em

Its all in the eye of the watcher, everything have 2 sides. Jack want to kill bandits so he can build citys and rule it, vault hunter want to kill bandits so they can kill jack at the end, both beeing a$$hole and murder everyone that dont help there side..
I love bl series, they are great, but you see what you want to see and good vs evil is just a matter of prespectiv.

Sry for bad english

[Rider of Retarded Lion Prince]

Originally posted by Torigoma:

Lets be honest, Roland and Angel where probably some of the only few NOT Insane characters in the whole Series.

+1
And also Tannis, she have autism as far as it go so she is not insane, only crazy logic about everything with a slice of rudeness

[Osamaru]

Originally posted by Rider of Retarded Lion Prince:

Originally posted by Torigoma:

Lets be honest, Roland and Angel where probably some of the only few NOT Insane characters in the whole Series.

+1
And also Tannis, she have autism as far as it go so she is not insane, only crazy logic about everything with a slice of rudeness

XD I think she admits to being insane during the Raid on Digistruct Peak, but ya, she would be one of the more mild ones.

[Rider of Retarded Lion Prince]

Originally posted by Torigoma:

Originally posted by Rider of Retarded Lion Prince:

+1
And also Tannis, she have autism as far as it go so she is not insane, only crazy logic about everything with a slice of rudeness

XD I think she admits to being insane during the Raid on Digistruct Peak, but ya, she would be one of the more mild ones.

Yeah but saying you are insane dont work.
A insane person dont know they are insane, so to thing you are insane make you sane as a insane person dont think they are insane but rather thing themself as sane.
So Tannis is the most sane person on pandora as she belive she is not sane with insteed prove she is sane as she know what is what in the matter of sane vs insane!

[Victini Trainer]

I am not looking it as back and white. It's pretty damn grey, But there is still a huge difference between Jack and Crimson Raiders. Jack killls unarmed people and shows no remorse, Crimson Raiders are willing to spare and not kill their enemies, Everyone is flawed, But the hate for Lilith is stupid. Yeah the Crimson Lance weren't angels and no one is, But Roland gave them a reason to live, He even gave them a choice, Protect the people or become bandits. Jack see everyone has bandits, He willing to kill his own people too and they follow out of fear, Pandora was just 1 planet. He doesn't care about 1 planet, He didn't care for the company, He was using it to reach his goal, It's in the game for crying out.

[Rider of Retarded Lion Prince]

Originally posted by Victini Trainer:

I am not looking it as back and white. It's pretty damn grey, But there is still a huge difference between Jack and Crimson Raiders. Jack killls unarmed people and shows no remorse, Crimson Raiders are willing to spare and not kill their enemies, Everyone is flawed, But the hate for Lilith is stupid. Yeah the Crimson Lance weren't angels and no one is, But Roland gave them a reason to live, He even gave them a choice, Protect the people or become bandits. Jack see everyone has bandits, He willing to kill his own people too and they follow out of fear, Pandora was just 1 planet. He doesn't care about 1 planet, He didn't care for the company, He was using it to reach his goal, It's in the game for crying out.

Yeah i agree with you! In Jack vs crimson raiders we know who would kill most to achive his goal, but the fact that lilith is suppos to be a "good guy", she is dark as f u c k...

[Victini Trainer]

yeah she is dark. But she is like Brick, Brick killed Shepard for for giving away their location and got his dog killed and he was tortured by Nisha. Roland tried to stop him from taking revenge, He killed Shepard in fron of his kids, Roland kicked him out, Brick got so tired of being called a Bandit so he started acting like one, Lilith is angry Roland is dead and she wants revenge, Hell Brick and Mordecai tried stopping her. Athena believed in Jack until she saw what he was like. Nisha and wilhelm stayed because they are messed up. But Lilith is just so angry that she doesn't care. All who helped jack should be killed. But hey she was stopped.

[Victini Trainer]

They are human after all.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Victini Trainer:

They were soldiers and they're are fighting to protect people and fight bandits,

Mercenaries, that then turned around and stareted fighting against the hyperion-coorporation that at that time tried to rid pandora of the bandits, bring it order and built up cities........... and what exactly did the leaders of the crimson raiders tell you to do? Right - help killing other people that they do not like (Radio-guy for example), saw distrust and war between calns (zaford), organ trades and other such lovely activities.
Oh yeah, we also do rob banks, banktrains, cargo deliveries.
Lilith... forgot how she "decorated" her home?

Jack became more and more tyranical cause people forced him to be.
Just look at the situation with the Merif - that guy betrayed Hyperion and worked with a person willing to slaughter millions of civilians, but Jack wanted not only to let him live but to forgive him - until that abstard tried to kill Jack.
It is Roland, Lilith and Moxx that tried to kill Jack and thousands of innocent on Helios.

Jack lost his patience and any reservations because of the people of Pandora.
Remember Opportunity? A luxurious city, draconian rules but you were not forced to stay there.

jack si not a typical "good" guy in BL2, but he is not a villain either.
And neither is Lilith a sane person, or a villain, or a good person. She is just as crazy as most other people on Pandora/elpis.

[Rider of Retarded Lion Prince]

Aint no rest for the wicked
Until we close our eyes for good

[Victini Trainer]

You are missing the big picture and I dunno if you're doing it purpose, They explained it all. You mixing parties up. The Lost Legion and Moxxie mission, You are also leaving stuff out I said and not addressing it, Ignoring it doesn't help your case. Jack was plotting big. Everyone who knew him saw it. The Watcher saw it and yes willing to kill to stop him. The price of the deaths on Elpis is small in conmpare to Pandora and who knows where else. He wasn't going to stop!

[Victini Trainer]

he was going for more vaults. Who knows how many deaths he would cause. And all you can do is blame people?