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I also don't think it's fair to say that GTFO did everything right. It could have broader appeal while respecting its niche audience with the right kinds of tweaks (ideally, it would help guide parts of a general audience into participating as part of the niche audience). It could absolutely have done with more attention from the dev team at many points, and there have been many questionable decisions over its lifespan.
I'm also not sure how accurate it is to say that GTFO has no bloat or padding. A progression system isn't necessarily bloat or padding if it's done well, and GTFO forgoing traditional gameplay loops doesn't necessarily mean that its content isn't at times quite boring or uninspired. A lot of GTFO's content is not very replayable, you just do it to get it done, and it's not uncommon for very engaging content to end up getting packaged in with very lackluster content (R4E1).
I feel like Lethal Company is a better example of actually doing everything right. It manages to be a very punishing game with heavy emphasis on a mix of knowledge and mechanics to do well, and yet it can appeal to a very wide audience by playing as a party game for bad players. Its skill curve fulfills the the wants of both casual and more invested players almost perfectly as players improve at the game and seek out the experiences that they want from it.
I do still like the game, the diegetic presentation is pretty good (if slow), but it being a time sink that punches down makes the game decidedly unfun at times, especially when I can look at other games that are more difficult and impart lessons better than GTFO, whilst either being more fair/responsive, or respecting the players time.
LOL
while i want for the games i like to bring their creators success, getting lots of money out of a game is a double-edged sword as that may turn them greedy and devalue the product, as things moving into the limelight often means that things get dumbed down for a broader audience. which is why i think the game doesn't reach player numbers like other co-op shooters do, because it isn't like them. it's a bit of a niche game for a shooter.
who doesn't do that on the modern internet
tl;dr who cares what some strawman "average gamer" thinks, be glad there's people making good games nowadays and vote with your wallet.
lmk if you actually read all this so i can award you a jester
It's pretty simple actually.
They shot themselves in the foot with a time limited content model, which turned a lot of people off, and scared prospective new buyers away; then they back-pedaled on that decision way too late. (We won't even get into how there was no way to join up with other random players for a long time.)
It's a shame, because it is a good game, and I enjoy playing it with my friend circle; but at this point it's not going to make a come back even if they un-do all the bad choices.
If GTFO was on a real Engine like Unreal Engine 4 it would be a totally different story about success.
The hacking the terminal and having to know DOS Command also prevented any kind of mainstream success ensuring it will always be a hardcore PC Game
But nothing wrong with that the game was never designed to be a mainstream game the only flaw GTFO suffers from besides the fact that all maps look the same is it uses a terrible mobile Engine called Unity
The game doesn't even have basic tech like DLSS or Ray Tracing etc so no free marketing from Nvidia all because this Unity trash doesn't support anything modern
First of all, most people don't know what they want, and it gets even more disconnected when they're saying what they want. Imagine trying to describe a new color that doesn't exist, that's most people trying to put what they'd actually enjoy the most into words, they're at best trying to piece together their previous experiences, an abstract feeling, into words that become topics and often turn into "buzzwords" that don't represent what they actually enjoyed about games they played.
So online discourse is misleading, if you go by what people SAY they want, it's likely not going to stick as you'd be trend chasing at best. Real success in the industry is always unexpected and out of left field, no one was asking for battle royale games before Fortnite.
Secondly, when people criticize things like bloat and progression systems, they're actually unhappy with how games that they played were designed and executed, but they mistake that the concepts themselves are bad. GTFO not having any real progression because people are unhappy with the progression systems of modern games, is not a good answer, the good answer is to have good progression. The good answer to content bloat is not to limit the content of the game into a rotation (they abandoned this thankfully) or limit the variety of content in the game, the good answer is to make lots of good content and put it out there.
Basically, don't take what "gamers" say seriously, you could poll a place like reddit for what a "perfect game" would be and make a game out of every popular request and it'd turn out into a terrible and unsuccessful game guaranteed.
GTFO is too inaccessible and has no hook to keep people playing, that's the extent of it.
I have so many friends that I sadly can't convince to play this because of the horror elements, trypophobia, and some that even if I get them to try it, they find the stress jolting.
This is not a mainstream game, nor do I want it to be.
I am absolutely in love with this game and I'm currently riding on an endorphin kick from having cleared my first D-level with 2 bots!
If you ask the founders if 10C they would say that GTFO was a bigger success that they could ever imagine. It set them up to become what the studio is today, on a totally different scale.
To the thread: I think it’s important to understand that gamers aren’t a homogeneous group. And most people that buy games would never voice their opinions about them here on Steam, Reddit or even socials. They buy a game, enjoy it (or not) and that’s it. GTFO hit the niche it was supposed to, and managed to keep enough people interested to keep updating for four years after the first Early Access release. The majority of game releases never make it past the first months.
I have no interest in den of wolves and I am rather disappointed that we went back to the same pay day kind of games instead of continuing with the success of GTFO
Do you think we will get a GTFO 2 in future?
Like much bigger variety of maps, better rewards for completing missions and much better graphics?
Modern technology like Ray Tracing and DLSS or Intel XEss or AMD FSR etc?
And what about moving to a proper modern engine like Unreal Engine 5?
This makes me so happy to hear. I wish you the best of luck in Den of Wolves and any future projects.
And as a fellow Swede it’s so exciting to see Swedish studios growing to a completely different scale!
You do realize Unity supports XESS/DLSS/FSR? Hell, Tarkov is built on Unity and supports all of it.
Unity also supports Ray Tracing, it's just not commonly used on Unity projects. Unity is a stellar engine, lots of great games are built on it, all games built on UE look the same.
Cause they ignored 90% of players feedback only to seek their edgy childish idea of "hardest game ever made".
They lied a lot in the process too.