Why is Nyrvir so bad? How would you change that?

[Monte]

Keep in mind I don't know the meta for this game (got to gold 1 within 10 hours, which also tells me that gold/plat isn't much of an achievement), but spending 75 mana on specific faction/archetype cards and having to play a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ terrible 3 mana spell - and use it at least once, then cycle through your whole deck and finally pay 10 MANA to summon him... He's absolutely awful
Colossus does the same thing cheaper and at ANY point in the game, with the only downsides being not attacking air, no summon damage and not being Mythic - all of which can be supplemented easily. Nyrvir takes atleast 13 mana to summon, combining spell and main summon cost disregarding the 75 mana for Accursed Ascension - you could play Colossus and any 4 mana ranged unit like Blastmancer (deals with trash air really easy) or a 5 mana like Annihilator to accomodate for any difference in effectiveness in most cases (latter case taking 1 extra mana over Nyrvir).

How would you make Nyrvir worth playing over something like Colossus or any other big monster?
The Queen's Dragon level 3 perk from Morellia basically makes it a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ better by making the cost 8, giving a somewhat better entry damage condition thing, and being available at pretty much the same point in the game - plus Queen's Dragon can be lowered to 6 mana cost using the spellbook - which costs 1, so 7 total I guess - putting it at the same cost as a Harbinger or similar unit with the tradeoff being that it's a single use deal.
Honestly just feels like this is what it almost should have been from the beginning, to be honest - the payoff for all the investment SHOULD be a cheaper, better monster.

Am I just stupid? What do other people think?
I just wanna summon a big dragon and feel good.

[Justice Potato]

Spawn of Fury it.

[Frosty85]

whole issue IS that it is a perk 3 for morellia.

Same 10 mana card cannot allso be a 8 mana card, you then have to nerf the 10 mana card down to 8 mana pereformance, and that is what has happend over the last year.

The 10 mana card cannot be any better before it is removed from morellias perk 3.

[arsenicBumpnip]

imo he's pretty fab if you specifically use it in a morellia deck, since then you get two if not even more nyrvirs, especially if you rage or Spawn them, but yeah w/o morellia Ascension decks are pretty meh

[Iso Koala]

Its not even a 10 mana card, in reality its 13 mana to summon it. Since the slumbers card was made useless with the rule change to it, you just use the card once when you have the 75 collected to get rid of it asap.
Only time to use it is against double snipers or flying buzzers, otherwise it just sits on your desk, and you throw it at the first enemy you see or even empty field when you have gathered the 75.

[Monte]

Originally posted by Iso Koala:

Its not even a 10 mana card, in reality its 13 mana to summon it. Since the slumbers card was made useless with the rule change to it, you just use the card once when you have the 75 collected to get rid of it asap.
Only time to use it is against double snipers or flying buzzers, otherwise it just sits on your desk, and you throw it at the first enemy you see or even empty field when you have gathered the 75.

It is ACTUALLY an 88 mana card because of that, exactly. Keep in mind, you have to spend 75 mana on Accursed cards SPECIFICALLY - that means anything like a Harbinger you've slotted in won't count towards it, so at best it's a dead card in hand until late game, when it turns into a Slightly-Better Colossus that costs ~50% more mana to summon and can't be spammed as much because to cast it a second time you have to cycle through your entire deck, cast the 3 mana spell, cycle through AGAIN, pay 10 mana for the dragon, and repeat.
It shouldn't revert to Slumbers once you have Ascension, literally kills the card 90% of the time considering how quickly it can die under a lot of circumstances, much like the other big monsters. Other big monsters, like Colossus, can atleast be spammed out during endgame to apply a LOT of pressure, which can make up for their weaker early game
Nyrvir has NO early game and a mediocre late game.

[Monte]

Here is how I would buff Nyrvir
To make up for the lack of early game, make the spell 1-cost because it is absolutely terrible and nowhere near the level of other 3-cost Accursed cards or spells, let alone other factions spells (the arrow/knife rain pretty much does the same damage but in a much larger area) or the 4 mana spells like Chain Lightning.
OR
Make the AoE bigger, give it more damage and divide its total damage between the targets in the AoE, letting it deal more damage to smaller groups of beafier units or less damage to soften up smaller, weaker ones. Tacking on an effect like applying Curse or giving a random unit Spirit if it kills something would also help it along, even if combining both ideas might even push it into 4-mana territory (I dunno tho).

Late Game Nyrvir Slumbers should either add Nyrvir to your HAND straight away, or Nyrvir should be added into your deck as a normal card, with Slumbers buffing him if it's played on him while he is out on the field - either a heal or giving rage/speed.

I think it would make the card a lot more playable, since it would still only be summonable late game but also wouldn't be a nightmare to use. Making Summon Nyrvir a spell instead of a minion so the cost can be lowered by the Spellbook would also be a help.

[arsenicBumpnip]

Originally posted by Monte:

Here is how I would buff Nyrvir
To make up for the lack of early game, make the spell 1-cost because it is absolutely terrible and nowhere near the level of other 3-cost Accursed cards or spells, let alone other factions spells (the arrow/knife rain pretty much does the same damage but in a much larger area) or the 4 mana spells like Chain Lightning.
OR
Make the AoE bigger, give it more damage and divide its total damage between the targets in the AoE, letting it deal more damage to smaller groups of beafier units or less damage to soften up smaller, weaker ones. Tacking on an effect like applying Curse or giving a random unit Spirit if it kills something would also help it along, even if combining both ideas might even push it into 4-mana territory (I dunno tho).

Late Game Nyrvir Slumbers should either add Nyrvir to your HAND straight away, or Nyrvir should be added into your deck as a normal card, with Slumbers buffing him if it's played on him while he is out on the field - either a heal or giving rage/speed.

I think it would make the card a lot more playable, since it would still only be summonable late game but also wouldn't be a nightmare to use. Making Summon Nyrvir a spell instead of a minion so the cost can be lowered by the Spellbook would also be a help.

Honestly just making Slumbers apply Curse would be enough to make it worth the 3-mana cost, I'd be all for that change. Imo that + having Slumbers put Nyrvir on the top of your deck when it converts instead of the bottom (while keeping the "Nyrvir turns back into Slumbers when played and Slumbers goes to the bottom"" mechanic) would be enough to make the card's viability more in line with the other Mythics.

I think when Nyrvir first came out the clunky mechanics of playing it were necessary, since it had far less counters then and the devs were still working out the kinks with the concept of Mythics, but at this point it definitely needs at -least- a buff to how Slumbers work, especially with how badly the change to Ascension nerfed it.

[JustATextBox]

Originally posted by Monte:

Here is how I would buff Nyrvir
To make up for the lack of early game, make the spell 1-cost because it is absolutely terrible and nowhere near the level of other 3-cost Accursed cards or spells, let alone other factions spells (the arrow/knife rain pretty much does the same damage but in a much larger area) or the 4 mana spells like Chain Lightning.
OR
Make the AoE bigger, give it more damage and divide its total damage between the targets in the AoE, letting it deal more damage to smaller groups of beafier units or less damage to soften up smaller, weaker ones. Tacking on an effect like applying Curse or giving a random unit Spirit if it kills something would also help it along, even if combining both ideas might even push it into 4-mana territory (I dunno tho).

Late Game Nyrvir Slumbers should either add Nyrvir to your HAND straight away, or Nyrvir should be added into your deck as a normal card, with Slumbers buffing him if it's played on him while he is out on the field - either a heal or giving rage/speed.

I think it would make the card a lot more playable, since it would still only be summonable late game but also wouldn't be a nightmare to use. Making Summon Nyrvir a spell instead of a minion so the cost can be lowered by the Spellbook would also be a help.

The spell *should* be weaker. If the spell was equally as good or better than Daggerfall, then Daggerfall would become irrelevant. If it was even close to Daggerfall then Daggerfall might become entirely replaced

Nyrvir is insanely strong. She is still counterable yes, but it takes some amount of thought and effort to do so, more than any other minion in the game by a considerable amount. She should never die without getting at least her mana cost back in kills/answers, if she does then you simply misplayed her.

Because of this, there needs to be a strong cost to using her - and there is. You get a below average spell for most of the game, and then you have to unlock her through a time consuming mechanic. You can't really change this, it's how she was designed. If you remove the requirement then you have to nerf her stats by a lot. If you buff her then Morellia will become OP, and she might even overtake the meta outside of Morellia decks.

Honestly, Accursed Ascension decks/cards in general are very.. awkward and I imagine very hard to balance. They have to be weaker than average before Ascension, but then stronger than average after Ascension. If it becomes easier to reach Accursed Ascension, then the decks suddenly skyrocket in strength. Either through them changing the mechanic in general, or just enough cards being added that you can delay the game long enough to reach Ascension without being punished too hard.

Originally posted by arsenicBumpnip:

Honestly just making Slumbers apply Curse would be enough to make it worth the 3-mana cost, I'd be all for that change.

This would be pretty OP too unless maybe it was limited to your side of the field, if it wasn't then this would just be an incredibly strong 3 cost spell that also summons a dragon if the game goes on long enough

[Monte]

My biggest issue with Nyrvir really lies with having to cycle through the deck so much to get them out a second time. If you only need them once, chances are you would've also only needed one of an equivalent cost response - even then, Queen's Dragon is two mana cheaper and becomes available at a similar point in the game, and can be made net 1 cheaper using spellbook (1 cost spell, lowers to 6 mana = 1 mana less overall). It's a single use, but as you said yourself if played well Nyrvir is very strong, so often it isn't an issue - plus it saves you running a bad 3 cost spell in your deck, and since the Spellbook itself is pretty good I consider the Master to not be that bad overall regardless.

I dunno, I haven't played the game for hundreds of hours and I don't know the meta - would prefer to keep it that way, honestly, since I was sold on this game by a close friend telling me I could build a bunch of fun gimmick decks. I don't want to get high enough rank that I *have* to play some form of meta and can't just do my own thing

[Commander Tom]

the charges are too much and nyrvyr spell is weak for 3 mana.