last stand card is op

[Grabax]

please remove it from game, its op

[markljunggren]

A simple fireball kill them

[fnu#]

it's a very powerful card, yes.
but also fairly simple to counter and/or play around.
like makjunggren already said, fireball can trade with them easily; in many cases, chain lightning softens them sufficiently, too.
and after you got hit by it once, you can just adjust your play - use the "grace period" between last stands to turn up the pressure, and leave opponent control over one bridge once you suspect he drew it again.

[Tatsukishi]

Fireball, Whelps, Whirly Scrat and best of all: Volco's burn the bridges. With exception of Whelps, all kill last stand with a good to very great (burn the bridges - you just burned his 7 mana for free) mana advantage.

[FreeForAll]

Also Battle Shi-Hou can deal massive damage to last stand, especially when he has a tanky unit in front of him.

[76561198116141226]

every deck has its weakness.. that card is op for some decks yes.. but its very useles vs some others

[Vileguy]

It's strong but it's not C2A strong. I use it a lot but mostly because I struggle defensively. It's a lot of damage and health for the mana, but being split over 8 units it's very vulnerable to all aoe. I'm pretty sure Whirly Scrat kills the whole thing for about half the mana, and without the bonus legionnaires it's not particularly strong. Other aoe effects can kill them even easier.

[GAIN CITY]

i agree that though not specifically "broken" it is a rather obnoxious card that limits design space and had unfair conditions accociated with it.

the card essentially reads: give your opponent a free bridge for exp, or get punished

Bonus effect: if their removal isn't spell based, and one can effectively clear their minions without a major loss, potentially win the entire battle.



I fundamentally dislike this card for so many reasons, it never feels fair when its played, its not like just giving the opponent an exp advantage is ever a good idea, and taking the bridges is kinda required.


but the real nail in the coffin? its a 7 mana card, that can pay out with 10 mana easily, and forces the enemy to be very cautious during pushes and just bridge wars, that has the mana effeciency of about 6.25 mana when summoned without both bridges.


so the low end of a counter tech surpise push card that will fundamentally change the way the opponent plays in a way thats favorable to you, is a mana loss of .75, or a profit of 3 mana.


ya that seems... i dunno not fair.

[Vileguy]

Originally posted by Akira:

i agree that though not specifically "broken" it is a rather obnoxious card that limits design space and had unfair conditions accociated with it.

I don't think that's correct usage of "limits design space." It's a comeback card that only synergizes with unit count, and it's less efficient at that then other cards like Xbow Dudes. Being vulnerable to AOE doesn't limit design space at all. C2A, Chain Lightning, Divine Warrior...cards like that limit design space because they shut down certain things. Last Stand doesn't really counter anything. It's good againtst a card like Cleaver, but so is Swarmers.

Originally posted by Akira:

but the real nail in the coffin? its a 7 mana card, that can pay out with 10 mana easily, and forces the enemy to be very cautious during pushes and just bridge wars, that has the mana effeciency of about 6.25 mana when summoned without both bridges.

It's not actually crazy value, more that it's actually bad value without the bonus. Legionnaires is 5 mana for 4, and Last Stand is 7 mana for either 5 or 8. The 8 legionnaires isn't quite equivalent to 2 casts of Legionnaires because it happens all at once, which makes it easier to counter. Combining Legionnaires with a different 3 mana card might be stronger in some cases.

And what if you "give" the opponent 1 bridge? If you each have 1 bridge, you're even. It's not like you have to give up both to prevent this card from getting value. Depending on your deck and master, only controlling 1 bridge at a time might be crucial to winning even without this card. Generally getting both is better, but you might be spreading yourself thing trying to do so.

Originally posted by Akira:

so the low end of a counter tech surpise push card that will fundamentally change the way the opponent plays in a way thats favorable to you, is a mana loss of .75, or a profit of 3 mana.

You might play this without the bonus on rare occassion, but generally you're going to hold onto it. In Apex decks, that gives value, but for everyone else it's just sitting in your hand not being used. When you finally do play it, perhaps to counter a big push, they don't have AOE and can be killed by a spell fairly easily. It seems like a fine card.

Throwing 7 mana into 8 minions is a big commitment just like paying 7+ mana for a single big dude. If that gets hit by a lightning bolt or your swarm hit by a fireball, you just fell behind. Taking advantage of cards like this is crucial to the game having a skill factor.

[GAIN CITY]

Originally posted by Vileguy:

I don't think that's correct usage of "limits design space." It's a comeback card that only synergizes with unit count, and it's less efficient at that then other cards like Xbow Dudes. Being vulnerable to AOE doesn't limit design space at all. C2A, Chain Lightning, Divine Warrior...cards like that limit design space because they shut down certain things. Last Stand doesn't really counter anything. It's good againtst a card like Cleaver, but so is Swarmers.
.

its not a comeback card if its played directly when the game starts... if it gets hit by ARC lightning, you end up with 8, 50 hp minions with high dps, for 3 mana, oh god you are right, what a horrible and easy to counter card.

there are options to deal with it, but simple removal tends to stop it, fireball is the only card that reliably deals with it completely, and even then decks with blackhole can counter that massively.

the issue fundamentally with your argument is you are acting like its fair i have to give my opponent exp or get punished for it. if you can't contest bridges, then ♥♥♥♥ you, you dont deserve a bridge. thats all, you dont deserve one for putting one card in the deck, and its not like the card is god awful, as expressed earlier, its still a 6.25 mana card for 7 mana when that isn't in effect, and a 10 mana card when it is...


legionaires are, btw, 5 mana, meaning each legionaire is equal to 1.25 mana, meaning 4 of them =5, 8 of them =10, and 5 of them = 6.25 mana.