When to build relic?

[ShakeNBakeUK]

Never really sure about this.

Is it sort of like a "win-more" mechanic, so build a lead, then slam a relic to prevent any chance of a comeback before landing the finishing blow?

Are there any clans which have viable "rush relic" strats, where you prioritise getting relic out as early as possible?

I've tried rushing relic on Squirrel, cos theirs seems pretty decent and the earlier you get it the better, but in terms of cost it really sets you back so far, mining time + forging time + gold taken away from military etc. In close games there's no way you are getting away with it cos opponent will just run you through with superior numbers.

[ShakeNBakeUK]

Originally posted by Hollow:

Are you asking solely for the Squirrel clan's relic or for every single relic that exists ?

asking for all but particularly interested in Squirrel cos I'm trying to figure out build orders for them atm ;)

[Plake]

A few relics should be build asap, e.g. Horse's as it boosts fighting and mining of the two warchiefs...

[WarnerCK]

Originally posted by Plake:

A few relics should be build asap, e.g. Horse's as it boosts fighting and mining of the two warchiefs...

Boar, too, is super handy if you get it out early, and then becomes less relevant as you get more food production and more military.

[xdaneo]

in high lvl MP games (>300gp atm) not worth it for most relics, except bear relic and maybe torfin for late game. horse is debatable, 802 right after winter not worth, 802 mid and later maybe. dunno about squirrel.

[RageOfPerun]

It really depends on Clan and situation, its not a must have 2/3 of games and the only/best path to victory in the other 1/3

(Horse its pretty much a given to have at least 1)

Squirel (from my limited experience) does pretty good without the relic, but their relic have arguably the best visual effect and certainly helps a lot in the late game

[ShakeNBakeUK]

Originally posted by RageOfPerun:

It really depends on Clan and situation, its not a must have 2/3 of games and the only/best path to victory in the other 1/3

(Horse its pretty much a given to have at least 1)

Squirel (from my limited experience) does pretty good without the relic, but their relic have arguably the best visual effect and certainly helps a lot in the late game

ye but u gotta get it out somewhat early cos it takes 4 months to spread to 1 zone.
im just trying to figure out optimal time to get it.
from what i gather, there's no point super rushing it (i.e. before mining stone)
so lets say get thru 1st winter, upgrade TC, then start mining iron.
but then if u dump first 10 iron into relic, you have no military so get crushed by timing rush attacks :3
so yea not too sure really when it is actually viable to go for it. defensive playstyle does not seem so viable :p i was hoping squirrel might be able to pull off some kind of viable defensive-macro playstyle, but it seems like you have to significantly outskill ur opponent to pull it off.

[Blue]

Originally posted by ShakeNBakeUK:

ye but u gotta get it out somewhat early cos it takes 4 months to spread to 1 zone.
im just trying to figure out optimal time to get it.
from what i gather, there's no point super rushing it (i.e. before mining stone)
so lets say get thru 1st winter, upgrade TC, then start mining iron.
but then if u dump first 10 iron into relic, you have no military so get crushed by timing rush attacks :3
so yea not too sure really when it is actually viable to go for it. defensive playstyle does not seem so viable :p i was hoping squirrel might be able to pull off some kind of viable defensive-macro playstyle, but it seems like you have to significantly outskill ur opponent to pull it off.

Pretty decent summary id say.
Basic issue with the squirrel relics are that it needs a lot of time to get going and the production boost seems somewhat lackluster.
The defensive mechanic only works in combat from what ive seen (if theres people experiencing something else, id be happy to hear about) meaning only when you fight in the tile with your enemy it has a chance to trigger. when an opponent attacks one of your units to be precise.

I dont really think relics are strong enough to warrant countermeasures. They certainly can accelerate certain clan-aspects, but its by no means a guarantee for a win. Not to mention the time and ressources they need to be build.
Not to mention having 8 or 10 warriors get their weapons upgraded is a huge benefit, not just for those warriors but also your economy. forging weapons takes a lot less time.

[RageOfPerun]

I never get Relic before i get 2nd iron mine up, so late year 2 or early year 3 - I know this looks late but with everything else that is happening the relic wont make such a big difference in early game vs mid-late game.. getting 2-3 early unit upgrades beats getting relic all the time. Pretty much never worth it to get relic 1st

[ShakeNBakeUK]

Originally posted by RageOfPerun:

I never get Relic before i get 2nd iron mine up, so late year 2 or early year 3 - I know this looks late but with everything else that is happening the relic wont make such a big difference in early game vs mid-late game.. getting 2-3 early unit upgrades beats getting relic all the time. Pretty much never worth it to get relic 1st

hence why i think it's more of a "win-more" mechanic than a game deciding play by itself.
a nice way to style on your opponents, if you will ;)

[CNC]

It depends what clan and relic you're thinking of building and what mode you're playing. I play FFA. I play a lot of boar, raven, and kraken. The boar relic is amazing when it's rushed, I always get it built mid 801. It pays for itself in 3 months and you have a defensive unit that can fight off anything at that point in the game. I've held off armies of 10 soldiers with just my chief, the boar, a tower, and a couple of hunters. It's great against an aggressive harasser like a lynx.

On the other hand, when playing kraken, I often make mjolnir which doesn't need to be rushed. I don't get it until 803 because I don't need it before then. It can still be extremely decisive , though. Mjolnir completely wrecks boar players because they usually have all villagers on one tile. If you can place your Mjolnir and zap him on that tile before he has time to react, you've basically won. 35 villagers getting blasted down to 1/3 hp is game over.

[CNC]

Originally posted by Kampfkekskrieger:

The thing is with relics: The more early you Do SOMETHING, the more impact it has on the rest of the game, of unknown length.

so the early bird is ALWAYS more influensive, than the 2. and 3. thing you do. even if you do it in large waves, the fact that its 3. priority, is already Killing ALL of the power for 1. and 2. priority things.

if you would melt a early jörmundur, then you can have like the whole 50% of your map for free, no food cost anymore. this is IMO a huge advantage, and it does not slow down lore tree at all, as it just gets faster each time.

but when u use jörmundur, dont do it for just 1 or 2 tiles you want have, but clear ALL you can have. use it extensively.

and so with all relics. with this logic, the relic is NOT the dominant thing to do imo.
it comes in 2. or 3. year as reinforcement, but thats a state when the FIRST encounter already has Happened, and all decisions did.
so see it as a escalation reaction, not first weapon, except for a rush. rush is very strong, but very boring.

very boring is more dominant here.

Disagree. Those fools who rush the raven relic prove you wrong. Some poor clown will rush the raven relic and have no fame, no lore, no military, nothing. Then they launch the giants. Any good player can easily defend against the coastal giant attack by itself. It's annoying and will cause some casualties, but is easily survivable. Meanwhile, the slow-witted raven player has put themselves so far behind they will never catch up.

On the other hand, if the raven player got their economy and military going first, and then built their relic later in the game, and use it properly, it can be very powerful. You attack someone on land and when your armies are engaged, you then land the giants. That is the proper way to use it.

[Macouille]

Originally posted by Kampfkekskrieger:

and the answer is:
would the developers have had answers on this, they would have developed a different game. even after 900 hours into the game, the people I play with know so little about the game, thats not worth to spend hours into it.

Well this gives at least a + side : at least any new player that commit a bit on the game and play like 100h can learn the mechanics and CAN have a chance against long term players. What I mean is their is a gap bewteen old and new players, but the gap isn't that hard to fill like in some other games. And the cool thing is that you can bring you friends on the game and after a little while they can start to kick butts on FFA

And for OP's topic I would say that it depends of your clan and your goal on the game, also depend of who is on each of your side. Ideally you should aim for a victory goal at the very beggining of the game and try to stick with it. But of course if you are surrounded by two aggressive clans like wolf or snake clan .. yeah your plans may be compromised and you'll have to compose with it and probably privilege warriors and upgraded weapons. If you are surrounded by clans aiming for Lore victory then you can wait for your relic

as every game is very unique by the map shape, your placement on the map, your neighbors and the environment, there is not prebuild answer to this question