Is this 'Warcraft' in space?

[triple_agent]

Knights versus Orks, is that it?

I remember 'Warhammer 40 000' tabletop to be a grim yet elegant fantasy universe in gothic and retrofuturistic vibe, often using imagery of spectacular proportions, elaborating on the topics such as a sense of purpose, meaning of war, morality, will to power, social order and hypocrisy. While not wanting myself to be spoiled with a caricature of this memory, can I be assured that the 'Dawn of War' is not any goofy orkish caricature of the iconic universe that lives in my imagination to this day?

[AON]

If you google Both Dawn of war (Warhammer 40k) AND Warcraft,, . it shows that warhammer 40k tabletop came out In the 80's... and that Warcraft came out in the 90's.

Warcraft is a ripoff of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k/Starcraft. - you're welcome

[ShelLuser]

The comparison to Warcraft (MMO) eludes me because these games couldn't be further apart.

This is an RTS base building game which is played out in the Warhammer universe. Has nothing to do with space, though it is implicated that several races get their reinforcements from spacestations in orbit. However, all the action takes place on the ground.

I'd say check the store page to get a good impression... the main difference between classic RTS titles and this one is that instead of mining resources you need to head out to occupy so called strategic points which will then gain you more influence which in its turn unlocks new options.

The emphasize of this game is definitely on the conflicts and less so on the base building, though that is an important part also of course. Despite being very dated right now this is actually still one of my favorite RTS titles. Well, series, because I enjoy many of the "DLC".

[triple_agent]

Originally posted by AON:

If you google Both Dawn of war (Warhammer 40k) AND Warcraft,, . it shows that warhammer 40k tabletop came out In the 80's... and that Warcraft came out in the 90's.

Warcraft is a ripoff of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k/Starcraft. - you're welcome

You take only two things into consideration, but there are three in my view. Namely, there is one digital game, there is a tabletop game and there is another digital game. The digital games are one sphere, while the tabletop games are the other. The point is, when a tabletop game and a digital game cross one another to built certain universe image in your mind eye theatre, this is what I am having trouble with accepting. I mean, sure you can call expensive wine and cheap wine simply both beverages but I do not think this is the right thing to do.

I just sense there is a corruption in your reasoning.

Originally posted by "ShelLuser":

The emphasize of this game is definitely on the conflicts and less so on the base building, though that is an important part also of course. Despite being very dated right now this is actually still one of my favorite RTS titles. Well, series, because I enjoy many of the "DLC".

"Dated" makes no difference if the game is playable in modern-day satisfactory manner and the PCgamingWIKI[www.pcgamingwiki.com] does give some answers on how this might happen.

For the day I am considering only vanilla, even though as I have learned on this forum, the expansion packs have effectively sabotaged any modding support for it.

The objective-based resources management system, basing on what you describe, reminds me somewhat of 'Infested Planet' that I enjoyed quite a bit.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

When I played this game after playing tons of WC3 I was blown away by physics and the dark tone of it. And no, it didn't feel like fantasy, felt more like scifi with tiny parts of fantasy (like orks).
You cant imagine my surprise when eldar turned out to be elves in DoW2 x) In DoW1 they all were helmeted and so you were free to imagine what was under those helmets.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

Originally posted by xCc|Felt^CSM:

Yeah it's like saying:
Orks(40k) = orks(warcraft)
Elder(40k) = elves(warcraft)
Sm(40k) = Humans(warcraft)
Chaos(40k) = undead(warcraft)

This throws in the de-bate about Movies and Sc2. Copyrighting units/composition and artworks. They are all individual pieces off art-work that all come from someone and somewhere. Someone it those big company at Activision/Blizzard and Relic/THQ/Gamesworkshop came up with these concepts designs and artworks to there own creation and should own its own right in each game as both universes are as big as they make them. I'm not too concerned about this issue it all came from somewhere music,artwork,writeings and all been done 10 millions off times throughout history and will be done ect... In the future.

Don't worry about so much unless its Blatant copyrights which is stealing the exact designs. Unless there make big money or fame from it the it can be a lawsuit against the company. Which will be handled by there lawyers.

Yeah, only bland copypasta is bad, taking an idea and expanding, changing it is cool.
Btw blizzard actually took heavy inspiration from warhammer, at least in starcraft. Rogue Trader space marines are literally ones we see in starcraft, brainwashed criminals in power armor. And obviously zerg are tyranids.

[triple_agent]

Orks(40k) = orks(warcraft)
Elder(40k) = elves(warcraft)
Sm(40k) = Humans(warcraft)
Chaos(40k) = undead(warcraft)

Orks are the biggest beef I have here. They have no unique trait, differing them from their 'Warcraft' siblings. On the other hand, I am aware the Eldar are simply Tolkien-style elves, only stretched way into the future, but they have their own style. When it comes to Chaos, I would not call it the undead equivalent here. Undead are morelike the Necron. Chaos is a twisted image of Humans - the Chaos Space Marines, it is. Chaos is genuine in WH40K and the world of 'Warhammer'. Chaos is what makes the WH40K in my opinion. Chaos and the warp gods. The "metaphysics" of WH40K are more evolved compared to 'Warhammer Fantasy'. Slaanesh did not exist in 'Fantasy', at least AFAIK. unless someone imported him so to speak.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

Originally posted by triple_agent:

Orks(40k) = orks(warcraft)
Elder(40k) = elves(warcraft)
Sm(40k) = Humans(warcraft)
Chaos(40k) = undead(warcraft)

Orks are the biggest beef I have here. They have no unique trait, differing them from their 'Warcraft' siblings. On the other hand, I am aware the Eldar are simply Tolkien-style elves, only stretched way into the future, but they have their style. When it comes to Chaos, I would not call it the undead equivalent here. Undead are morelike the Necron. Chaos is a twisted image of Humans - the Chaos Space Marines, it is. Chaos is genuine in WH40K and the world of 'Warhammer'. Chaos is what makes the WH40K in my opinion. Chaos and the warp gods. The "metaphysics" of WH40K are more evolved compared to 'Warhammer Fantasy'. Slaanesh did not exist in 'Fantasy', at least AFAIK. unless someone imported him so to speak.

Orks have their british football fans slang and goofiness, saying that they are equal to warcraft orcs is madness.
Chaos was introduced to both 40K and WHFB at the same time, and both settings had the same gods and demons and metaphysics (except in 40K Slaanesh had a different backstory).

[triple_agent]

Orks are Orks, I think they are just what you say in any game.

I do not really know what is their job in the gothic universe of WH40K.

They are this kind of a joke race, but maybe WH40K needs them because of this.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

Originally posted by triple_agent:

Orks are Orks, I think they are just what you say in any game.

I do not really know what is their job in the gothic universe of WH40K.

They are this kind of a joke race, but maybe WH40K needs them because of this.

You clearly haven't played much if you say orcs are same everywhere.
WarCraft - shamanic race corrupted by demons and used to weaken Azeroth before demonic invasion.
Warhammer - big muscly brutes who like to bash heads and can't live without war.
TES - followers of an elven god who was "eaten" by another evil god and shat out as a god of pariahs, making his followers ugly and unwelcome.
HoMM - an experiment in mixing sentient races with the demons, used as shock troops to fend off demonic invasions, rebelled and searching for their place in the world.

Sure, everywhere they are strong and a bit ugly and usually green (or brown), but there is enough differences.

[triple_agent]

Yeah, you are right, I did not play all that much, but Orks are Orks, you know what to expect. Perhaps I just do not see them fit in WH40K, but that is only me. I would anytime pick up the Aliens, sorry - the Tyranids, which by the way have poor aesthetic design but what do you do. Perhaps I would even choose rather nothing than Orks, if you say Tyranids are out of question for whatever the reason. Perhaps I would just go with classic order versus chaos.

Talk for talk, imagination.

Anyhow, seeing how the game runs I do not think I will be getting into mods or DLCs, so glad that I just got the bare naked GOTY edition cheap in retail. The game does run, sure it is a merit, but these are not the times when you should be happy anything runs at all. You expect quality. I heard the expansion packs go better but I just feel like meh about it. Maybe I will get through half the campaign at least or something.

It is all because of the 'Impossible Creatures' I bet.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

Originally posted by triple_agent:

Yeah, you are right, I did not play all that much, but Orks are Orks, you know what to expect. Perhaps I just do not see them fit in WH40K, but that is only me. I would anytime pick up the Aliens, sorry - the Tyranids, which by the way have poor aesthetic design but what do you do. Perhaps I would even choose rather nothing than Orks, if you say Tyranids are out of question for whatever the reason. Perhaps I would just go with classic order versus chaos.

Talk for talk, imagination.

Anyhow, seeing how the game runs I do not think I will be getting into mods or DLCs, so glad that I just got the bare naked GOTY edition cheap in retail. The game does run, sure it is a merit, but these are not the times when you should be happy anything runs at all. You expect quality. I heard the expansion packs go better but I just feel like meh about it. Maybe I will get through half the campaign at least or something.

It is all because of the 'Impossible Creatures' I bet.

Main interest for DoW was that it came right after WarCraft 3, and had amazing physics and finishers on all units (like a marine shooting an enemy point blanc, or a demon squeezing a unit to drink its blood). Nowadays it might not be as mindblowing, so bear that in mind.

Also addons (DLC was a nonexistent term at the time of release) expand on the factions, so if you want more of them I'd say try addons. Winter Assault has a better campaign and imperial guard (simple humans), Dark Crusade has a planet conquer mode instead of campaign and adds necrons and tau and was considered the best version of DoW1, and Soulstorm adds woman zealots and dark eldar but was made by a new studio who had less experience and it was pretty crap on release (cant say how its today). Also DC and SS have native widescreen unlike this one.

And if you want tyranids - try DoW2. They even have campaign in the last addon, Retribution. Or try StarCraft 1-2, zerg were pretty much inspired by tyranids but are different enough.

[triple_agent]

I do not believe WH40K does justice in digital. Tabletop is a whole separate dimension.

When it comes to Tyranid aesthetics, it is the face of poverty compared to the genius of artists such as Giger and Beksiński, which is kind of understandable, but still. Whatever merit do Tyranid have, it is the elaborate lore and structure the WH40K universe gives them.

WH40K is a lot about scope of imagination and metaphysics of the Warp is essential to it. There is no metaphysics of the Warp without Chaos. Chaos is natural, order is artificial beyond the order of natural. One could say the Orks represent primordial chaos forces as much as the Tyranid or the Chaos Space Marines. I disagree. While they all represent an aspect of something that is natural to them, direct Chaos military does not exist without the Empire.

I would even go as far and say Chaos Space Marines is a fantasy - a lie.

I imagine that Chaos as anti-order extravaganza manifests itself from being believed in, which means that any material appearance of Chaos entities - which are beings of the Warp "interpreted" in flesh and actuality - is already a failure of artificial order. It means doubt. To Chaos, Empire is an iron-curtained niche of self-inflicted ignorance and despotism.

The question is: once you face Chaos, how can you not believe in it? Empire believes there are answers to all of questions. The Chaos is just the questions.

If I was to summarize in one sentence what the direct Chaos is to myself, then I would say that it is the backlash caused by application of will, force, labor or effort.

Speaking more liberally, chaos is simply anything the artificial order would like to avoid, but such configuration leaves plenty of room for uncertainty.

By the way, when I played WH40K tabletop, there was not yet Tau.

[Autosavant Demetrius]

Interesting thoughts, I urge you to write it on 40K lore reddit!
But need a little cleanup, text feels a bit strange.

I agree on tyranids, and I agree that lore makes even lamest looking things interesting.
You can read about old lore by looking up Rick Priestley interviews, he basically is the father of Warhammer.
Btw literally anyone is tied to chaos, be it orks, humans or anyone else who can feel despair (Nurgle), hope (Tzeentch), conflict (Khorne) and excess (Slaanesh). And the imperium isn't disbelieving chaos, they are forcing a curtain over it so that citizens wont start worshipping it or doing stupid things that will lead to imperiums destruction. Total secrecy.

Also interesting that in WHFB\Age of Sigmar Nagash (supreme necromancer) is trying to wipe out chaos by turning everyone undead, so there would be no emotion and all will will be one. Pretty interesting!

[triple_agent]

despair (Nurgle), hope (Tzeentch), conflict (Khorne) and excess (Slaanesh)

There was also this weird anti-god, Malal?

Anyhow, that is Chaos divided. Chaos undivided - the way I see it - is natural, primordial force driving the races. The human Empire took a certain stance towards it, but nonetheless remains tightly connected with this force, only through the rule of negation. That is also why their denial and effectively self-denial gave rise to Chaos Space Marines, their shadow-self. Most other races accept the primordial chaos, as I imagine. The one chaos is like an ocean, it can be deadly or nurturing, it bears life within, it is dark and hard to grasp, sometimes it punishes and sometimes it rewards, but no mariner can ever deny it without succumbing into contradiction, provoking paradox over oneself. Some could argue chaos is essentially randomness or unpredictability of sort, but I think there is more to chaos than that. Chaos means acceptance.

When it comes to the undead or the Necron, is their being not a punishment ready?

When it comes to Nurgle, it is probably the most cherished of all gods, for his touch of decay soothes the pain of living demise he brings, this god of gardeners and croppers.

Tzeentch and hope? Come on. Tzeentch is nothing but twisted, lost in his own labyrinth of thoughts. How anyone as twisted can have hope for any better future or even a future, emerging from something else than sheer veil of ignorance? This god of fools and idols.

Slaanesh, is just not serious, but the Eldar like him - each drawn to their own.

Khorne, is the oldest of gods and for a reason 'WH40K' is a universe of war.

When I met Khorne for the first time, he treated me with a bloody steak and fine olive oil. Once I tasted it, I knew my fate. This is what Tzeentch will never seize, Nurgle never touch.

I urge you to write it on 40K lore reddit!

Why? Do you think they will reward me? I do not think so. I am already rewarded.

I took my reward in advance.

[smiggy086]

I remember years ago while drunk i somehow end up on table top wh40k sub reddit instead of wh40k rts games sub reddit after dow3 just came out.ANd easy to guess that dow1+2 my connection to slam dow3 but when you get over 2k down votes on reddit and like op here you find out wh40k was around before blizzard came into exsistance