Where does Zen discuss upcoming changes? [Ranty]

[Freyar]

You know.. I was pleased to have a board I liked from Zen. I bought the Bethesda tables outright on my phone, then grabbed them here. Was nice to be able to have it available well enough. Problem is, I then found out you needed a key to enable portrait mode and that key is granted manually. This is something that competitors don't need to do. (I won't name the competitor as a courtesy.)

Now, the key was presented pretty quickly, but a follow-up query is pretty much ignored. The question was: How do I get a static camera so I don't miss my skillshots?

The response I got was: "You can press the button to reset, it was done that way to help with skillshots."

Feedback on that note via e-mail has been ignored for the most part (but I can understand the timing for it being that it's the weekend and all.) However the camera angle does NOT help with skillshots. The competitor I mentioned above allows for a "lock" to the camera, and also remembers what you had set between sessions. Pinball FX however, requires me to fight with the camera every single time I play a new ball.

I've finally enjoyed an "original" table through this platform, but it seems the decisions made to camera and so on are ignored so aggressively (especially as I read that these requests are as old as Pinball FX2). Perhaps this is just me not seeing official responses, but I am very disappointed that "Devs force the camera to change to help you" is the only message presented to long time customers and new customers.

[spacecowboy420]

you can find the latest update notes on zens forum https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthread.php?19121-Pinball-FX3-New-Update-Notes . The next update is for tomorrow 17th as i said in your other post no mention of any view fixes maybe you could give my post on this issue a bump on zens website https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthread.php?18814-Cabinet-mode-toggle-zoomed-in-ball-launch-view-issue-on-some-tables .

I no longer bother reporting bugs whats the point when they don't fix them and ignore posts Zen used to be one of my fav developers back in the xbox 360 days don't know what's happened with them but they have messed up fx3 in a big way think its time to move to other pinball titles that are less of a hassle to play. In the mean time all we can do is keep posting and asking for this to be fixed.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Freyar:

You know.. I was pleased to have a board I liked from Zen. I bought the Bethesda tables outright on my phone, then grabbed them here. Was nice to be able to have it available well enough. Problem is, I then found out you needed a key to enable portrait mode and that key is granted manually. This is something that competitors don't need to do. (I won't name the competitor as a courtesy.)

Now, the key was presented pretty quickly, but a follow-up query is pretty much ignored. The question was: How do I get a static camera so I don't miss my skillshots?

The response I got was: "You can press the button to reset, it was done that way to help with skillshots."

Feedback on that note via e-mail has been ignored for the most part (but I can understand the timing for it being that it's the weekend and all.) However the camera angle does NOT help with skillshots. The competitor I mentioned above allows for a "lock" to the camera, and also remembers what you had set between sessions. Pinball FX however, requires me to fight with the camera every single time I play a new ball.

I've finally enjoyed an "original" table through this platform, but it seems the decisions made to camera and so on are ignored so aggressively (especially as I read that these requests are as old as Pinball FX2). Perhaps this is just me not seeing official responses, but I am very disappointed that "Devs force the camera to change to help you" is the only message presented to long time customers and new customers.

I'd like to know who this competitor is, because a "static" shared launch AND playfield camera doesn't exist in any of the current "big" pinball games available here on Steam.

Also, when you say "portrait mode," do you actually mean CABINET mode? I can understand your confusion, but they are not the same thing, nor mutually exclusive... and you can use BAM with FX2 (not sure about FX3, but the Bethesda tables are available in FX2) to have pretty much any camera angle you want, with rotation, and even more lighting and rendering options.

[Freyar]

Originally posted by Mal:

I'd like to know who this competitor is, because a "static" shared launch AND playfield camera doesn't exist in any of the current "big" pinball games available here on Steam.

Also, when you say "portrait mode," do you actually mean CABINET mode? I can understand your confusion, but they are not the same thing, nor mutually exclusive... and you can use BAM with FX2 (not sure about FX3, but the Bethesda tables are available in FX2) to have pretty much any camera angle you want, with rotation, and even more lighting and rendering options.

My favorite set of tables are with the competitor, and it provides a static view I can lock. Portrait mode for Zen was apparently moved behind the cabinet keys when they released FX3.

For the record, my favorite tables are Judge Dredd, Cirqus Voltaire, Funhouse, and Black Knight 2000. All of which are available through steam.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Freyar:

Originally posted by Mal:

I'd like to know who this competitor is, because a "static" shared launch AND playfield camera doesn't exist in any of the current "big" pinball games available here on Steam.

Also, when you say "portrait mode," do you actually mean CABINET mode? I can understand your confusion, but they are not the same thing, nor mutually exclusive... and you can use BAM with FX2 (not sure about FX3, but the Bethesda tables are available in FX2) to have pretty much any camera angle you want, with rotation, and even more lighting and rendering options.

My favorite set of tables are with the competitor, and it provides a static view I can lock. Portrait mode for Zen was apparently moved behind the cabinet keys when they released FX3.

For the record, my favorite tables are Judge Dredd, Cirqus Voltaire, Funhouse, and Black Knight 2000. All of which are available through steam.

TPA (the competitor you won't mention) does NOT have a static view that is shared by BOTH the playfield and the launcher (I know, becasue this has been a feature request since DAY ONE), also TPA cabinet view is ONLY available by buying a specific arcooda game cabinet.

If you only need portrait (turn your monitor to 9:16) mode, you can easily do this with Windows 10 and any video card made in the last 8 years. PLus there are numerous free apps that do it better (like FreeCameraMod, which you SHOULD be using with TPA)

Just anf FYI... You know, you CAN lock the FX3 views (1, 1w and 2) but this still has the exact same behavior as TPA, which is where the camera changes for launching the ball.

Also... TPA and FX2/3 are certainly not competitors, one emulates REAL tables (warts and all) while the other makes a video game using FANTASY physics and impossible "real world" elements that happen to share many pinball table (ball and bat) gaming traits.

There is room for both games, and do a little research before you rant.

[Khronikos]

I absolutely HATE the camera views in this game. A dev said they would take a look at it 6 months ago. Still nothing. It really cannot be that hard to at least give us a few more realistic views at mid distance. Currently, there is basically nothing.

[Ecktown]

I will wait for updated camera angles before buying other tables. It's not a lot of fun to play with these bad views. View 1 should be a bit higher - as if you are standing in front of the table. And view 2 should not be zoomed out that much. But I have my doubts that they really are working on that. I was hoping for this update but...

[Freyar]

Originally posted by Mal:

[TPA (the competitor you won't mention) does NOT have a static view that is shared by BOTH the playfield and the launcher

If you only need portrait (turn your monitor to 9:16) mode, you can easily do this with Windows 10 and any video card made in the last 8 years.

I can lock the ball launch view to be the exact same as the one I use to play. Does what I set for the normal play table change the launcher's view? No. But I can set both to be the exact same (and locked) and not have to worry about it (it even persists!) In this one, however, I have to change it EVERY single time a new ball is put in play.

You misunderstood my complaint.

After the thought of portrait, you are right so I'll concede that, but it wasn't the core of my dissatisfaction.

You can stop with passive aggressive pettiness here. We're all wanting the product to be better, all of us. My comparisons are based off my experiences, and suprrisingly, others don't seem to disagree.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Freyar:

Originally posted by Mal:

[TPA (the competitor you won't mention) does NOT have a static view that is shared by BOTH the playfield and the launcher

If you only need portrait (turn your monitor to 9:16) mode, you can easily do this with Windows 10 and any video card made in the last 8 years.

I can lock the ball launch view to be the exact same as the one I use to play. Does what I set for the normal play table change the launcher's view? No. But I can set both to be the exact same (and locked) and not have to worry about it (it even persists!) In this one, however, I have to change it EVERY single time a new ball is put in play.

You misunderstood my complaint.

After the thought of portrait, you are right so I'll concede that, but it wasn't the core of my dissatisfaction.

You can stop with passive aggressive pettiness here. We're all wanting the product to be better, all of us. My comparisons are based off my experiences, and suprrisingly, others don't seem to disagree.

No, you literally CANNOT set the ball launch to the exact same view as any of the playfield views.... you CAN however, set it to one that may not seem so jarringly different in viewpoint, but then, you can also do this in the FX games.

There are THREE launch views and there are FOUR playfield views in TPA, and NONE of them match.

You can lock the playfield and launch views (1, 1w and 2) in FX. And setting the camera for each ball? YOU are doing something wrong.

Oh... I understood your complaint and I agree with the underlying sentiment. However, comparing these two titles makes no sense, and when the comparison is based on misinformed and misobsewrved anecdotal evidence... well, it makes your whole post a passive aggressive bit of worthless noise.

In the future try this... "I wish Zen would put the cabinet feature in the game and not behind a request system, and the cameras; they need to give us free camera movement and lock capability."

Now go over to the TPA forums and type... ""I wish Farsight would put the cabinet feature in the game and not behind a vender exclusive deal, and the cameras; they need to give us free camera movement and lock capability."

The other posters also hate the choice of camera views, you can include me on that number as well, however I offered up actual solutions to the camera issues in BOTH FX and TPA games.

Edit: You are discussing the Steam PC version of TPA compared to the Steam PC version of FX2/3 here in your posts on Steam, right?

[spacecowboy420]

No we are discussing having the option to turn off the zoomed in ball launch that resets its self every new ball and on 20+ of the tables you have to press the view button 9 times to get back to the view you play in as it moves the view on by 1 instead of the view you play in.

I want to launch the ball in cabinet view 2 to do this i have to press the view button an 3 times per game not including extra balls it gets annoying then you have a load of tables that you have to press the view button 27 per game which is just plain stupid and why we are asking for them to give us the option to turn it off nothing you surgested fixes this issue

[Freyar]

Originally posted by Mal:

No, you literally CANNOT set the ball launch to the exact same view as any of the playfield views.... you CAN however, set it to one that may not seem so jarringly different in viewpoint, but then, you can also do this in the FX games.

Just ran through a few looks on the competitor and you know what? You're right. That beign said, the difference isn't jarring, and also persists in my selection.

You can lock the playfield and launch views (1, 1w and 2) in FX. And setting the camera for each ball? YOU are doing something wrong.

The camera set for the plunger is not persisting between balls. Either they have some obscure key to lock it, or the game resets the camera position with each ball regardless of preference. I've scoured options for a way to have a static view for the table, there isn't any that I can find. Others apparently can't find it either, which means it's not available or not well exposed as an option.

Oh... I understood your complaint and I agree with the underlying sentiment. However, comparing these two titles makes no sense

I'll simplify it: The competitor is doing something better than Zen is. This has been requested for a long time, and there's been (as far as I've heard/seen/read/searched/etc.) zero comment on it.

The other posters also hate the choice of camera views, you can include me on that number as well, however I offered up actual solutions to the camera issues in BOTH FX and TPA games.

None of your solutions address the underlying problem as people have apparently been asking this for a significant amount of time and no movement has been made on Zen's side. Put simply: I can easily deal with the camera views their competitor has, while Zen's experience is frustrating because of their "We have you stare in the bottom right because it's 'supposed to help with skillshots'" reasoning.

Edit: You are discussing the Steam PC version of TPA compared to the Steam PC version of FX2/3 here in your posts on Steam, right?

I am comparing same-platform. The problem persists in the mobile space too. (Again, comparing the competitor's client to Zen in the same platform.)

[Akos]

I checked this on a computer on Steam:

- I changed the camera to View 2 on the Deadpool table from the plunger
- Lost the ball -> got put into the plunger view
- Changed the camera once -> back to View 2, so I didn't have to cycle through 1 and 1w again.

We do have separate saves for camera angles on each table, not one universal setting.

If you are playing on a cabinet this is not like how I described? So on Ball 2 you have to go through cam 1 and 1w a second time as well?

[spacecowboy420]

Originally posted by Akos:

I checked this on a computer on Steam:

- I changed the camera to View 2 on the Deadpool table from the plunger
- Lost the ball -> got put into the plunger view
- Changed the camera once -> back to View 2, so I didn't have to cycle through 1 and 1w again.

We do have separate saves for camera angles on each table, not one universal setting.

If you are playing on a cabinet this is not like how I described? So on Ball 2 you have to go through cam 1 and 1w a second time as well?

i never said deadpool had this issue tables that do have it try any of the tables below
ZEN STUDIO TABLES
Adventure land
Shaman
Tesla
V12
Sorcerer's lair
Earth defence
Mars
Paranormal
Biolab
Pasha
Rome

MARVEL TABLES
Civil war
Captain America
Fantastic 4
World war hulk
Fear itself
Infinity gauntlet
Avengers
Ghost rider
Thor
Xmen
Moon knight
Iron man
Spider man
Blade

STAR WARS TABLES
Clone wars
Empire strikes back

[Mal]

Originally posted by Freyar:

Originally posted by Mal:

No, you literally CANNOT set the ball launch to the exact same view as any of the playfield views.... you CAN however, set it to one that may not seem so jarringly different in viewpoint, but then, you can also do this in the FX games.

Just ran through a few looks on the competitor and you know what? You're right. That beign said, the difference isn't jarring, and also persists in my selection.

You can lock the playfield and launch views (1, 1w and 2) in FX. And setting the camera for each ball? YOU are doing something wrong.

The camera set for the plunger is not persisting between balls. Either they have some obscure key to lock it, or the game resets the camera position with each ball regardless of preference. I've scoured options for a way to have a static view for the table, there isn't any that I can find. Others apparently can't find it either, which means it's not available or not well exposed as an option.

Oh... I understood your complaint and I agree with the underlying sentiment. However, comparing these two titles makes no sense

I'll simplify it: The competitor is doing something better than Zen is. This has been requested for a long time, and there's been (as far as I've heard/seen/read/searched/etc.) zero comment on it.

The other posters also hate the choice of camera views, you can include me on that number as well, however I offered up actual solutions to the camera issues in BOTH FX and TPA games.

None of your solutions address the underlying problem as people have apparently been asking this for a significant amount of time and no movement has been made on Zen's side. Put simply: I can easily deal with the camera views their competitor has, while Zen's experience is frustrating because of their "We have you stare in the bottom right because it's 'supposed to help with skillshots'" reasoning.

Edit: You are discussing the Steam PC version of TPA compared to the Steam PC version of FX2/3 here in your posts on Steam, right?

I am comparing same-platform. The problem persists in the mobile space too. (Again, comparing the competitor's client to Zen in the same platform.)

Oh... so you are comparing iPad to iPad but posting here on Steam about it... got it.

Seriously... do some research BEFORE posting next time, and maybe consider posting on the proper platform boards in the future instead of clouding this one up with unrelated platform specific issues.

You may not understand why Zen has chosen to render the camera views they have chosen to stick with, and frankly, they don't need to tell us why (hint: imagine Hollywood movie sets). I gave you a KNOWN working alternative for some of the long standing user camera preferences and if you choose to ignore this, oh well.

Maybe you should consider comparing FX3 to FIFA?... they do both have a ball on screen.

p.s. Thanks for conceding, once again... You will eventually learn that I am right about everything I post.

[Mal]

Originally posted by spacecowboy420:

No we are discussing having the option to turn off the zoomed in ball launch that resets its self every new ball and on 20+ of the tables you have to press the view button 9 times to get back to the view you play in as it moves the view on by 1 instead of the view you play in.

I want to launch the ball in cabinet view 2 to do this i have to press the view button an 3 times per game not including extra balls it gets annoying then you have a load of tables that you have to press the view button 27 per game which is just plain stupid and why we are asking for them to give us the option to turn it off nothing you surgested fixes this issue

YOU are discussing that (I saw your post on the Zen forums back in January), not the OP.

I believe I first requested the lock to playfield for launch feature back in the olden' Barbie's first week on the job days.

FYI, these tables you mention have the exact same camera behavior in FX2 as well, which isn't surprising... though give Zen credit for coming up with a novel approach to removing previous paid for dlc from a game due to improper licensing contracts. I suppose we will get FX4 when Comcast renegotiates...

edit: you know if I remember correctly, they added the "step BACK to current camera during launch" on certain tables (Epic Quest) due to needing to see certain playfield elements for the skill shot.

They need to do this for all tables just to be consistent if nothing else.

[Freyar]

Originally posted by Mal:

Oh... so you are comparing iPad to iPad but posting here on Steam about it... got it.

Nope, Steam to Steam, Android to Android.

Originally posted by Freyar:

I am comparing same-platform. The problem persists in the mobile space too. (Again, comparing the competitor's client to Zen in the same platform.)

I am comparing the same platforms, the problems exist in the mobile space in addition to.

Originally posted by Akos:

I checked this on a computer on Steam:

- I changed the camera to View 2 on the Deadpool table from the plunger
- Lost the ball -> got put into the plunger view
- Changed the camera once -> back to View 2, so I didn't have to cycle through 1 and 1w again.

We do have separate saves for camera angles on each table, not one universal setting.

If you are playing on a cabinet this is not like how I described? So on Ball 2 you have to go through cam 1 and 1w a second time as well?

The three tables I play with are Skyrim, Doom, and Fallout. Is it intentional to require interaction to get the camera to reset back on each ball? I remember having to cycle through each time.

Originally posted by Mal:

YOU are discussing that (I saw your post on the Zen forums back in January), not the OP.

...and yet he understood my arguments/frustrations.