Heavy vs. Pyro vs. Tank

[A Distinctive Lack of Huehuehue]

More often than not this happens, a tank wave is approaching, everyone ready up to face the defensive juggernaut that is the Tank.

A Pyro and a Heavy is in the team, as well as a Kritz Medic, I'm sure you and I would agree the Medic should give kritz to Heavy. But some people would ask the Medic to give Kritz to the Pyro instead of the Heavy, claiming that Pyro does more damage to Tanks than Heavy can.

What runs in my mind is, wut? Who sold you what drugs? Please explain, I'm going mad about this.

[jus' Ignαnt]

Heavy doesn't do 100% damage to the tank - not sure about the Pyro.
Non Kritz I think a Brass Beast does 27 damage, Minigun 18 (per bullet ??)
Non Kritz fully upgraded damage for the Flamethrower does 40.
(Or at least that's what I think I saw for damage the last time I played Pyro)
Not sure about the damage of the Phlog but then you wouldn't even need the medic since the taunt will krit you. Seeing this happen more and more and not needing anyone else to even look at the tank.

Then it depends on how many bullets (upgraded shooting speed) or flames are hitting the tank per second.

Someone with more knowledge will respond.....

[A Distinctive Lack of Huehuehue]

I think many people seem to forget that the Minigun doesn't fire 1 bullet per ammo unit.
Try it out fire 1 ammo unit and you'll actually find 4 bullet holes.

That's right, 4 bullets per ammo unit, 800 bullets total, and each bullet does 11-12 damage against tanks.

That's over 8000 damage on unupgraded Sasha on full ammo, I can't tell how people come to the conclusion that pyro does it better.

[Nemets]

Originally posted by KMOS:

I think many people seem to forget that the Minigun doesn't fire 1 bullet per ammo unit.
Try it out fire 1 ammo unit and you'll actually find 4 bullet holes.

That's right, 4 bullets per ammo unit, 800 bullets total, and each bullet does 11-12 damage against tanks.

That's over 8000 damage on unupgraded Sasha on full ammo, I can't tell how people come to the conclusion that pyro does it better.

Tanks absorb 3 of those bullets, leaving the heavy with less than 150 DPS.

[Samoflange]

Originally posted by PAPA KMAJ LE FOUTEUR DE BORDEL:

Originally posted by KMOS:

I think many people seem to forget that the Minigun doesn't fire 1 bullet per ammo unit.
Try it out fire 1 ammo unit and you'll actually find 4 bullet holes.

That's right, 4 bullets per ammo unit, 800 bullets total, and each bullet does 11-12 damage against tanks.

That's over 8000 damage on unupgraded Sasha on full ammo, I can't tell how people come to the conclusion that pyro does it better.

Tanks absorb 3 of those bullets, leaving the heavy with less than 150 DPS.

Exactly. Heavys are badass damage dealers. BUT they are the least effective against tanks. They have a 75% damage penalty against tanks. That is why the Pyro is the most effective. Next being Soldier/Demo. Heavy is one of the worst. If you don't count Spy/Sniper/Medic. Believe it our not the scout is actually right behind the pyro if he is using a fully upgraded FoN/Soda Popper. (Full damage max clip size.) But the scout should never be in that position until near the last wave if they are upgrading through the proper paths, like run speed and milk.

[[S] Modus Pwnens]

If you want to chew up tanks here's the quick and easy:
1) Scratch the Kritz med, you don't need him.
2) Tell heavy to hold the lines
3) Phlog Pyro solo's the tank

Seriously, the phlog pyro is one of the most insane things in MvM at the moment. When the usual suspects gather for evening MvM the preferred team is currently a double Phlog team. Turns Mecha into a joke.

[I do it for free]

A point-blank Brass Beast bullet normally does about 65 damage, but it only does about 16 damage to a tank. With fire rate fully upgraded, the Brass Beast does about 270 DPS to tanks. The flamethrower does a bit more than that, provided that the pyro has also been upgrading damage.

This is all kind of a moot point though, since the pyro could just switch to the Phlog anyway.

[specter]

Phlog is the most OP weapon in MvM. No one else can solo a tank. I've solo'd 3 in Mecha leaving my team to finish off bots. Equip Uber canteens and stand in front of a line of giants and watch them go down one by one.

[[S] Modus Pwnens]

If you have a good team you really don't need uber canteens. If scout is doing his job I chew up those stacks of demo's/soly's. Use the corners and cover. I'll jump out charge, while taking minimum damage, find nearest cover, Mmmmph, and into the milky, fiery, and very short fray. Then, I do it all again.

[Eon-Rider]

I actually made a YouTube video on this a while back when someone argued with me over this very topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkFgPg1Evoc

I didn't record it but I ran the numbers and a fully upgraded Brass Beast will only JUST beat a fully upgraded Degreaser.

[Mic]

Stock pyro airblast does not even come close to 40 on a tank.
Heavy with any weapon cant finish a tank before the first turn outside the cave, ever.
Soldier cant finish a tank before the first turn outside the cave, ever.
Phlog can and will finish any tank solo before the first turn outside the cave, every time.

The purpose of letting a pyro do its job and telling others not to chase the tank is so the cave is not lost. Airblasting is so cliche in terms of its ability to reset the bomb when any decent group never lets the bomb progress. I wont even bother with a group without phlog unless the group has multiple tours. I have seen in just the last few days, a pyro fully upgrading flare gun and no resists, a soldier using a rocket jumper and a natasha heavy claiming he was god vs tanks nevermind the -20% damage.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Stock pyro does 40 to the tank with crits. Phlog does 37. Heavies do 32. The big difference is the Phlog will always deal crits, a BB will not.

Frankly if your pyro isn't using the phlog while a tank is out, he's playing his class wrong.

[Flea47]

when crit-boosted all negative dammage effects against the heavy are negated...crit should always go to the heavy. also tank should never be on the tank unless crit charged...they're too good at killing the swarming bees that are the robots

/thread

[Manta]

Originally posted by Captain Awesome:

when crit-boosted all negative dammage effects against the heavy are negated...crit should always go to the heavy. also tank should never be on the tank unless crit charged...they're too good at killing the swarming bees that are the robots

/thread

Not actually true in the slightest, Criting heavies still get the 75% damage reduction against tanks.

[Lunacy]

When I kritz against a tank I try to kritz any explosive classes, then switch while they're reloading, to pyro > or heavy in the mean time. Even a fully upgraded shortstop scout could pull out over 1000 dps on the tank with kritz iirc