Firing Speed Upgrades

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Do they have the same classic Valve blunder that the Tomislav has, where "X% faster" means "X% shorter interval between attacks"? I never really paid too much attention to them but just decided to test out the firing speed and the numbers I got were very close to what numbers you'd get for multiplying the wiki's listed interval by 0.9, 0.8, 0.7, and 0.6. Are they all like this, so they're all exponentially more useful the more you have? Is reload speed the same way as well?

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

Yes. Guns fire/reload 10% earlier rather than 10% more frequently, making further upgrades more worthwhile (100/90 = 1.11... vs 110/100 = 1.1, exponential vs linear growth). This also means that 100% faster firing/reload speed is instant, like the Soda Popper on x10 servers.
It's the same result I've come across when I researched the optimal flare gun upgrade path. Basically, maxing either reload speed or attack speed is more effective than upgrading both at the same time.
The flare gun only has a clip size of one, so the "optimal path" is only optimal for those weapons, but it doesn't change the fact that extra points are exponentially better. This probably also applies to Mad Milk cooldown etc, but not banner duration.
Is it a blunder though? I would argue that it's a different, equally correct approach, but more dangerous because now you have to deal with exponential growth possibly breaking things. Though, I assume linear scaling would make more sense, like League of Legends did with cooldown reduction vs ability haste because it messed with the effective value of items. It was always worth going for the full 40% CDR if your item build allowed it.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp:

Yes. Guns fire/reload 10% earlier rather than 10% more frequently, making further upgrades more worthwhile (100/90 = 1.11... vs 110/100 = 1.1, exponential vs linear growth). This also means that 100% faster firing/reload speed is instant, like the Soda Popper on x10 servers.

And it's the same on melee weapons, right?

Originally posted by Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp:

Is it a blunder though? I would argue that it's a different, equally correct approach, but more dangerous because now you have to deal with exponential growth possibly breaking things. Though, I assume linear scaling would make more sense, like League of Legends did with cooldown reduction vs ability haste because it messed with the effective value of items. It was always worth going for the full 40% CDR if your item build allowed it.

The phrasing on the upgrades lying to you and not letting you know the growth's exponential is a blunder, yes.

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

And it's the same on melee weapons, right?

I assume it is. The higher points certainly feel more impactful. Not sure how it stacks with weapon attributes like the Jag though.

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

The phrasing on the upgrades lying to you and not letting you know the growth's exponential is a blunder, yes.

Fair point. It should actually read "-x% firing/reload time". Though, while "reload time" as an attribute makes sense, "firing time" or "-x% time between shots" sounds confusing.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp:

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

And it's the same on melee weapons, right?

I assume it is. The higher points certainly feel more impactful. Not sure how it stacks with weapon attributes like the Jag though.

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

The phrasing on the upgrades lying to you and not letting you know the growth's exponential is a blunder, yes.

Fair point. It should actually read "-x% firing/reload time". Though, while "reload time" as an attribute makes sense, "firing time" or "-x% time between shots" sounds confusing.

-x% firing delay, refire delay, something like that. Or +11/25/43/67% firing speed. Or something idk. The defense one saying you take 25/50/75% less damage does a good job showcasing that it's exponential, at least to anyone smart enough to understand that.

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

-x% firing delay, refire delay, something like that. Or +11/25/43/67% firing speed. Or something idk. The defense one saying you take 25/50/75% less damage does a good job showcasing that it's exponential, at least to anyone smart enough to understand that.

I can't believe that I didn't think of the word "delay". It sounds less stupid now.

[Thenimas]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=281878917

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Thenimas:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=281878917

That guide says to max resistances on Scout early

[[dustbowl.tf] jh34ghu43gu]

Well for the miniguns you can look at sig's firing speed graph https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=524625631

Which would be ~14% shorter interval on the first and second tick, ~29% shorter on the third, and ~43% on the fourth for stock (0%, 25%, ~38%, and 50% on tomi).

[Thenimas]

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

That guide says to max resistances on Scout early

It is also from 2014
besides, that's being applied to pyro and heavy too so I don't take that part too literally

[Banana {JESUS IS LORD}]

Originally posted by Thenimas:

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

That guide says to max resistances on Scout early

It is also from 2014
besides, that's being applied to pyro and heavy too so I don't take that part too literally

jay and i upgrade resis on heavy 1st

u calling jay and me a bad player?

[Thenimas]

no

not saying you aren't but that's also not what I was saying before