Actually, the Conjurer is just IMBA.

[bitb0602]

Since the enemy always doesn't summon demon, totems, Conjurer is just like cheating.

[bullse]

o.....k.

[it's a gabe]

Just you wait.

[Adeptus]

You havent played this game much havent you?

[Stabbey]

It's strong at the beginning, but because Summoning doesn't scale with any attribute, it never gets more powerful after level 10 Summoning.

[76561198148697700]

you dont play tactician do you

[BenSt88]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

It's strong at the beginning, but because Summoning doesn't scale with any attribute, it never gets more powerful after level 10 Summoning.

Not quite true. W/ gear you can get above 10 Summoning, and the Incarnate is more buffed accordingly.

Now I have to look up what "IMBA" means, though I get the gist of it.

[Reaper21666]

I am lvl 18 in arx.
Have a lone wolf necro/summoner and still finding the blood infused incarnate a viable option.
Do need the physical and ranged buffs to give it decent armour but not sure how long u till its not powerful enough to be worth having.

[BarbieGirl]

Originally posted by Reaper21666:

I am lvl 18 in arx.
Have a lone wolf necro/summoner and still finding the blood infused incarnate a viable option.
Do need the physical and ranged buffs to give it decent armour but not sure how long u till its not powerful enough to be worth having.

I am also level 18 in Arx. My summoner is a rogue, Sebille, and has level 10 summons. It still seems pretty good as long as I give it the 4 basic buffs. I do have a ring I found that give the summons the ability to summon totems, so that helps too.

[rasmasyean]

After you max Summoning, you'll have to branch. So can't you do the lower level pet spells from the other trees? They still scale with Summoning level, right?

It sounds like as a consequence, you'll naturally open up a variety of support spell options...since most don't scale with level.

[Mastigos]

I feel like half the people in this thread don't know the difference between "a strong, viable option" and "overpowered."

I also feel like 75% of "advanced" players don't keep current with the latest patch notes, and are stuck in the past when Summoning truly did fall off at level 10. Get with the times; Summoning scales just fine now.

[Valrynn the Dragoness]

Summoning seems quite strong to me; though currently lohse has level 16 summoning because of her gear

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Mastigos:

I feel like half the people in this thread don't know the difference between "a strong, viable option" and "overpowered."

I also feel like 75% of "advanced" players don't keep current with the latest patch notes, and are stuck in the past when Summoning truly did fall off at level 10. Get with the times; Summoning scales just fine now.

No patch has given them the fundamental rework that is needed to fix their inherent flaws. It’s never been that it isn’t usable or viable. It’s that they don’t scale in power like your own character could be doing. Physical incarnates are generally the strongest once the magic ones use the like 2 spells you get. Then they’re very AP inefficient and their potential damage output to a well built mage is very poor. They’re still usable, they’re just noticeably inferior.

[Fazl]

Originally posted by Mastigos:

I feel like half the people in this thread don't know the difference between "a strong, viable option" and "overpowered."

I also feel like 75% of "advanced" players don't keep current with the latest patch notes, and are stuck in the past when Summoning truly did fall off at level 10. Get with the times; Summoning scales just fine now.

Now, I have a summoner with 20 summoning currently. That is 10 from points. 10 from gear. I think I hit 20 summoning .. at level 16 I think. It is a lone wolf as I wanted to test it along side another lone wolf, really push them boundries on the larian mod but.. let us be real, lone wolf or not a summoner wont get stronger than that, attributes do nothing and no other school impacts your summons.

With enabling the larian mod to test other summons I can tell you that without that larian mod, the incarnate summon wont pull it's weight compared to others in a 4 man squad, let alone a lone wolf run. As stated above, the AP it requires to put out damage is just ugly.

That being said. There is 1 exception to the rule. One ability that a summoner has that hits the hardest in the game. Aoe is small but still aoe. What is it? The Larian Mod Bone widow.

To put it in perspective, I as Lohse faced the doctor with no candles extinguished, He was at full power, and my bone widow reduced his hp / physical armour from 44k total.. I think? To about 8k in one attack. How ?

You see.. the Bone widow with a power infusion learns, bone cage. The nurses the doctor had are lovely fuel. But.. bone cage doesnt do damage you fool.. what are you on about?

Oil infusion grants the bone widow reactive armor. Turning Physical armor into damage. Couple that with all infusions + super charge + fortify .. and your widow will do 30K+ in one aoe attack at arx. Maybe before then.

Summons are always viable, but they are still the worst school of "magic" to learn. There are some fun things you can do.. such as using soul mate with an enemy undead like Alice and healing yourself, which "heals" her.. so she dies from you drinking potions.

But in the end, it isnt worth the points. The source skills are very lack luster, the summons are weak without the larian mod, and unless you want to do it for your own fantasy, it is a waste of points and way to much effort for little reward.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Fazl:

-snip-
But in the end, it isnt worth the points. The source skills are very lack luster, the summons are weak without the larian mod, and unless you want to do it for your own fantasy, it is a waste of points and way to much effort for little reward.

Exactly. It’s more than just the scaling. Their kit just isn’t enough to make up for the lack of scaling and all that. You can definitely use them and beat the game with them, but it’d be for fun/roleplay reasons. Effectiveness is lost using them simply because they just can’t compare to a standard character. Even if you get gear to bump them to 20 summoning, they still lack the range of spells, talents and other options regular characters have and that limitation holds them back.

The Larian mod probably helps immensely, but once you bring mods into the equation, everything stops being relevant. I’d pretty much only use summoning with that mod though.

[Mastigos]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

No patch has given them the fundamental rework that is needed to fix their inherent flaws. It’s never been that it isn’t usable or viable. It’s that they don’t scale in power like your own character could be doing. Physical incarnates are generally the strongest once the magic ones use the like 2 spells you get. Then they’re very AP inefficient and their potential damage output to a well built mage is very poor. They’re still usable, they’re just noticeably inferior.

You got me: it wasn't a "patch" per se that gave Summoning a massive boost, it was a mod. A mod that was officially added to the game and explained in the latest patch notes. In my mind, there's one and the same thing -- an officially sanctioned mod is worlds apart from a random mod. And just because Larian gives you a choice whether you want to opt in to the mods, doesn't mean they're just "for fun" and not meant to be part of the balanced experience of this game. They are using mods to 1) enhance the player experience of the game (quality of life mods such as Run Forever mod, or the bag mod) and then there is 2) the "combat enhancement" mods that they're using to boost aspects of combat without investing significant studio time and energy. In other words, they're balancing the game using already available mods, instead of working on balance from scratch. Which is intelligent when you consider that this game is a (primarily) single-player experience that they're updating as a work of love instead of a money making ploy. Why not use a mod to balance your game, when the mod succeeds in balancing your game? It makes perfect sense, and is efficient to boot.

One of the newest mods added to the roster -- for the expressed purpose of making Summoning more useful and powerful -- did a spectacular job at adding a slew of new options to each and every summon, sans your default Incarnate. With the mod, Summoning not only had a boost to raw power, but also an even more impactful boost to versatility.

And as I've pointed out before: if summons were just as powerful (or more powerful) than the summoner him/herself, the game would be inherently flawed, simply because of how the game itself is designed. Summoning is just one school of magic among many. The fact that it creates a being with its own health, movement, turn in combat, AP, armors, etc

And not to be rude, and I genuinely mean that, but I said many times over that Pyrokinetics overtook Aerotheurgy and Geomancy as the overall most potent spell tree in late Act 3/Act 4+ and got some flak and resistance because of that, even going to far as to claim it was the weakest. Well after making it to the extreme end game and doing weeks of experiments (giving equal or greater benefit-of-the-doubt to Aero and Geo, because that's just the kind of person I am) I could confidently conclude, with hard evidence and numerous examples, that Pyro was handily the most potent spell school late game in boss battles, especially against (but certainly not limited to) enemies which have resistances to each school of magic 50+.

That's not to say that because I was right once that I'm right forevermore about everything, and that you're wrong, but it DOES indicate that my experience, theory-crafting, and instincts were spot on and able to be proven and replicated. And to apply this to Summoning: the mod gives summoning the flexibility and power to exponentially aid a caster, not just add flat power.

But again, you're correct that it wasn't a patch; it was a mod. But I think arguing that there isn't a difference between officially-sanctioned/whitelisted mods and player-opted, unsanctioned mods are somehow the same thing is a fruitless and incorrect.

The only reason I take the time to write detailed replies to your posts is because I consider you an equal. I just wish we saw more eye-to-eye on the game.