This is not an RPG.

[Tamaster]

so, now that i made this bold assumption you will need some reasons, here you go.

This game is not an RPG because it does not have one of the fundamental elements of any RPG: freedom of opinion and choice in all interactions.

Yes, you do have freedom to:

- Choose who to kill and who to spare, or also choose to kill every NPC or none. Fine. But this is not role playing.

BUT

You do not have freedom of choice in arguments and moral questions that are put in front of you in main and side quests. Your character, has its own political agenda, moral compass, and ethics, and he will force the player to follow those, totally removing any freedom of choice on how to react to people's various actions and opinions.

If you follow, i will do a little example using a side quest, i will keep this spoiler free as much as i can.

There is a quest in a certain area where you have to find a certain person. You find out that this person is not alive anymore, then you find a document describing certain events. In this document there is proof that this person and another were burning people alive to contain the infection and also cleanse their souls. When you acquire this information and go to the quest giver, your only option is to condemn him as a monster and criminal. There is not an option to understand, or ever agree on his methods, because the alignment of the character is FORCED to be LAWFUL GOOD.

A game that forces in such a radical manner a character alignment PREVENTING you to make any choice that is not aligned with a lawful good attitude, is NOT an RPG, it is an INTERACTIVE STORY with COMBAT and CRAFTING elements.

[jack_of_tears]

Pretty much, but so far it has been fun.

[Solo]

I don't think anyone with a substantial history of gaming would ever consider this to be an RPG in the first place. It was wrong of you to expect this to be an RPG when clearly from everything we knew about the game before release (including Dev comments) obviously pointed this to not being an RPG.

[frowningmirror]

Fable and Star Wars Kotor games had a light/dark morality spectrum, this game has that too, you can kill or be good and not kill. They are RPGs. In a world where anything gets labeled as an RPG, this game is more Role Playing than a good portion

[kesat]

RPG doesn't mean much nowadays. It's pretty much just a term to describe a game which has also some sort of character development/progression, dialogues and quests. Take AC Origins as an example. Take AC Origins as an example - officially it's an action-adventure, but it's also refered to as an action-rpg.

And the problem about this: What else would you call it?

Actually if you compare original adventures like Monkey Island to modern day Action-Adventures then you'd need to agree that the similarities are much lower than compared to RPGs. The meaning of both, RPGs and Adentures, have changed and are pretty much overlapping (adventure being a term for "rpg-light" games) to describe games which are not just action games (like shooters).

[Viktor]

There are different types of RPGs and by the way just having morality choices in a game doesn't make it RPGs (aswell as not having them) even just playing a game with a character heavy story centrated enter the label of Role Playing (even if you can't decide anything)

[Solo]

Originally posted by frowningmirror:

Fable and Star Wars Kotor games had a light/dark morality spectrum, this game has that too, you can kill or be good and not kill. They are RPGs. In a world where anything gets labeled as an RPG, this game is more Role Playing than a good portion

You're correct it has RPG elements, but there is no role to play when the role is defined for you, as noted in the OP. You play a defined role where you are just able to make different choices based on how you want to play.

[Viktor]

Originally posted by Solo:

Originally posted by frowningmirror:

Fable and Star Wars Kotor games had a light/dark morality spectrum, this game has that too, you can kill or be good and not kill. They are RPGs. In a world where anything gets labeled as an RPG, this game is more Role Playing than a good portion

You're correct it has RPG elements, but there is no role to play when the role is defined for you, as noted in the OP. You play a defined role where you are just able to make different choices based on how you want to play.

Role playing is playing a role not (necessarily) deciding the role.

[[CL] Ethan]

A actor, in a play, is playing a role, despite his inability to branch off from the script.

[Tamaster]

Clearly some people in this thread have not even a basic grasp of gaming concepts.

A Role Playing game is a game where you play a role that is defined by your choices. The RPG genre was born decades ago with games such as Torment, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Wasteland, Fallout, Neverwinter, just to name a few.

Those games, precursors of the modern RPG genre, had in them an impossibly huge amount of choices for the player, and not just good, neutral and bad, but a lot of shades ranging from absolute lawful good to chaotic evil. You did not have a defined, pre-made moral compass, YOU DECIDED what your moral compass was and your chocies made following that compass determined the outcome of the game quests and relationships.

We can also see this in modern games, relatively modern, such as Fallout New Vegas, Tyranny, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Deus Ex, and many others.

THIS is what an RPG is. Everything that does not give the player a choice on the outcome of quests, and does not give freedom of opinion, ethic, morals and choice, is NOT an RPG, it is an ADVENTURE GAME.

[Viktor]

Originally posted by Tamaster:

Clearly some people in this thread have not even a basic grasp of gaming concepts.

A Role Playing game is a game where you play a role that is defined by your choices. The RPG genre was born decades ago with games such as Torment, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Wasteland, Fallout, Neverwinter, just to name a few.

Those games, precursors of the modern RPG genre, had in them an impossibly huge amount of choices for the player, and not just good, neutral and bad, but a lot of shades ranging from absolute lawful good to chaotic evil. You did not have a defined, pre-made moral compass, YOU DECIDED what your moral compass was and your chocies made following that compass determined the outcome of the game quests and relationships.

We can also see this in modern games, relatively modern, such as Fallout New Vegas, Tyranny, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Deus Ex, and many others.

THIS is what an RPG is. Everything that does not give the player a choice on the outcome of quests, and does not give freedom of opinion, ethic, morals and choice, is NOT an RPG, it is an ADVENTURE GAME.

That is YOUR definition of RPG, at this point what is an RPG isn't writen on stone but usually share some similarities, this game has some things that you said but you just say It isn't an RPG because doesn't have ALL what you want to have.

[Tamaster]

Originally posted by Viktor:

Originally posted by Tamaster:

Clearly some people in this thread have not even a basic grasp of gaming concepts.

A Role Playing game is a game where you play a role that is defined by your choices. The RPG genre was born decades ago with games such as Torment, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Wasteland, Fallout, Neverwinter, just to name a few.

Those games, precursors of the modern RPG genre, had in them an impossibly huge amount of choices for the player, and not just good, neutral and bad, but a lot of shades ranging from absolute lawful good to chaotic evil. You did not have a defined, pre-made moral compass, YOU DECIDED what your moral compass was and your chocies made following that compass determined the outcome of the game quests and relationships.

We can also see this in modern games, relatively modern, such as Fallout New Vegas, Tyranny, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Deus Ex, and many others.

THIS is what an RPG is. Everything that does not give the player a choice on the outcome of quests, and does not give freedom of opinion, ethic, morals and choice, is NOT an RPG, it is an ADVENTURE GAME.

That is YOUR definition of RPG, at this point what is an RPG isn't writen on stone but usually share some similarities, this game has some things that you said but you just say It isn't an RPG because doesn't have ALL what you want to have.

This is not "my" definition of RPG. this is THE definition of RPG because the games that INVENTED this genre were like the ones i described, therefore any game called RPG must have said features, or else it is not an RPG.

Go and google it, do some research if you do not believe me.

[Viktor]

Originally posted by Tamaster:

Originally posted by Viktor:

That is YOUR definition of RPG, at this point what is an RPG isn't writen on stone but usually share some similarities, this game has some things that you said but you just say It isn't an RPG because doesn't have ALL what you want to have.

This is not "my" definition of RPG. this is THE definition of RPG because the games that INVENTED this genre were like the ones i described, therefore any game called RPG must have said features, or else it is not an RPG.

Go and google it, do some research if you do not believe me.

One of the best and more known RPGs (JRPGs) Final Fantasy. Now of course you will say that the J invalidate the RPG... xD

[armymdic]

I am 19 hours in and would argue it is 100% an RPG. You do have free will, especially with the skill lines, the district management and pivtal choices that defintely impact the world....all of if which updates dynamically at the end of each day.

[Tamaster]

Originally posted by Viktor:

Originally posted by Tamaster:

This is not "my" definition of RPG. this is THE definition of RPG because the games that INVENTED this genre were like the ones i described, therefore any game called RPG must have said features, or else it is not an RPG.

Go and google it, do some research if you do not believe me.

One of the best and more known RPGs (JRPGs) Final Fantasy. Now of course you will say that the J invalidate the RPG... xD

JRPGs are a completely different thing than Western RPGs, they are based on completely different concepts and it is safe to say they are a completely different, standalone genre.

[kesat]

Originally posted by Tamaster:

Clearly some people in this thread have not even a basic grasp of gaming concepts.

A Role Playing game is a game where you play a role that is defined by your choices. The RPG genre was born decades ago with games such as Torment, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Wasteland, Fallout, Neverwinter, just to name a few.

[...]

THIS is what an RPG is. Everything that does not give the player a choice on the outcome of quests, and does not give freedom of opinion, ethic, morals and choice, is NOT an RPG, it is an ADVENTURE GAME.

Yes and no.

What you are describing as a RPG is just the traditional, classic RPG.

Take Skyrim (or any Elder Scrolls game) - those are actually just sandbox games and not RPGs if you apply the traditional definition for an RPG. They simply lack the freedom of choice and significant of quests. The same is true for Mount and Blade (also more like a sandbox than a classic RPG).

On the other hand this definition of RPG excludes any dungeon crawler - which were some of the first RPGs in videogames. All those points you have brought up simply were non-existent for these games - yet they were always referred to as RPGs.

And why is a game which doesn't have freedom of choice, ethic and morals and adventure instead of a RPG? Classic adventure games usually were just about story and puzzles. Combat was of no importance (if there was any), character development and progress was non-existent.

Why would you accept that the traditional definition of adventure would have changed that much - but deny that the term RPG is used in a different sense than in the late 90s? Quite the double standards?