Where are the M16A1 Optics?

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Marksman class should have an M16A1 with an optic!

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by telamiina:

Originally posted by Rootin Tootin Putin:

If you can find me a picture of an M16 with a sniper optic taken during before or during the Vietnam War, I'll support this.

I actually saw one not to long time ago. It was one of those fancy nightvision scopes.
Huge huge scope :D

edit. Might been those special forces like dudes say at top.

That sounds more like the M3 Carbine than an M16.....

[Maki Nishikino]

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Originally posted by telamiina:

I actually saw one not to long time ago. It was one of those fancy nightvision scopes.
Huge huge scope :D

edit. Might been those special forces like dudes say at top.

That sounds more like the M3 Carbine than an M16.....

PVS-2 on the M14/21 and M16.

[telamiina]

Originally posted by Maki Nishikino:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

That sounds more like the M3 Carbine than an M16.....

PVS-2 on the M14/21 and M16.

Yes. It was M16 for sure.
Funnily there was Viet vet commenting that pic and its scope. Said it was quite horrendous to use but when you got it in correct para,eters it was quite good.
If I recall right, problem was it lost its calibration to easily so you could not hit a poop with it.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by telamiina:

Originally posted by Maki Nishikino:

PVS-2 on the M14/21 and M16.

Yes. It was M16 for sure.
Funnily there was Viet vet commenting that pic and its scope. Said it was quite horrendous to use but when you got it in correct para,eters it was quite good.
If I recall right, problem was it lost its calibration to easily so you could not hit a poop with it.

Well the Mosin scope shouldn't have perfect clarity in-game but it does, its not like this game is trying to be super realistic.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by meme capt.:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Well the Mosin scope shouldn't have perfect clarity in-game but it does, its not like this game is trying to be super realistic.

There’s a difference between a relatively usable scope and a heavy, unwieldy, inaccurate scope barley used even by SF

Colt 4x is more logical

Well the Colt 4x is what this post is supposed to be and about getting it into the game.

[static]

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Originally posted by meme capt.:

There’s a difference between a relatively usable scope and a heavy, unwieldy, inaccurate scope barley used even by SF

Colt 4x is more logical

Well the Colt 4x is what this post is supposed to be and about getting it into the game.

It's just not within the scope of the game, no pun intended. Next, people will be asking for increasingly ridiculous stuff like claymores hooked up to tripwires, custom paintjobs for their rifles and HALO insertions into maps.

Part of what attracts so many of us to RS2 is its focus on authenticity, of staying true to what was available to the average soldier or marine during this particular conflict. Once we start moving away from that we might as well be playing CODBLOPS or similar lowest common denominator garbage.

We have marksman and sniper classes in-game with specialized scopes. Those scopes were mounted to accurized rifles that were set up for that particular task. There were no conventional soldiers with traditional scopes mounted to M16s, and very few M16s with the primitive "starlight" scopes mounted to them were even available to regular units. The vast majority of scopes and starlight scopes were mounted to accurized M14s and bolt action sniper rifles, not M16s.

What you're asking for was overwhelmingly limited to unicorn-level special forces units, virtually all of whom were performing extremely classified missions that had nothing to do with what RS2 is depicting.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Well the Colt 4x is what this post is supposed to be and about getting it into the game.

It's just not within the scope of the game, no pun intended. Next, people will be asking for increasingly ridiculous stuff like claymores hooked up to tripwires, custom paintjobs for their rifles and HALO insertions into maps.

Part of what attracts so many of us to RS2 is its focus on authenticity, of staying true to what was available to the average soldier or marine during this particular conflict. Once we start moving away from that we might as well be playing CODBLOPS or similar lowest common denominator garbage.

We have marksman and sniper classes in-game with specialized scopes. Those scopes were mounted to accurized rifles that were set up for that particular task. There were no conventional soldiers with traditional scopes mounted to M16s, and very few M16s with the primitive "starlight" scopes mounted to them were even available to regular units. The vast majority of scopes and starlight scopes were mounted to accurized M14s and bolt action sniper rifles, not M16s.

What you're asking for was overwhelmingly limited to unicorn-level special forces units, virtually all of whom were performing extremely classified missions that had nothing to do with what RS2 is depicting.

So a suppressed M14 is ok but not a Scoped M16? Dood you think everyone was issued one of those? Oh but I guess in your view those are ok because they're already in the game.

[static]

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

So a suppressed M14 is ok but not a Scoped M16? Dood you think everyone was issued one of those? Oh but I guess in your view those are ok because they're already in the game.

Read the history, that's your guide to what was used and what wasn't. The weapons present in RS2 are selected because they were known to be widely fielded.

The M16 was NOT used as a scoped rifle in Vietnam, apart from a - literal - handful of rifles that SOG & Green Beret armorers equipped with scopes for specific missions. Easily available historical records and first hand accounts support this. The M16 was also not used with the Sionics suppressor by anyone outside of various special forces teams, as the subsonic 5.56 cartridges produced at that time did not perform reliably in combat conditions.

The USMC didn't believe in the value of semi-automatic scoped rifles during this time; they stuck with the bolt action M40 for the duration of the Vietnam War for this very reason.

After stateside tests with scoped M16s didn't produce satisfactory results, the US Army developed the M21/XM21 by creating a heavily modified, accurized version based on the "national match" build of the M14 that was married to one of several scopes, depending on the intended use. They then developed a further modified version of the M21 mounted with a purpose built suppressor developed by Sionics corporation. The suppressed variant of the M21 was intended for combat at night, as it used subsonic ammunition to greatly reduce the weapon report.

It was also used during daylight operations as well since its reduced firing signature made it a very effective weapon system in a wide range of conditions. There were at least 1,300 of them fielded in various configurations, according to the sources I've dug up. It makes the cut to be included in RS2 because there weren't huge numbers of actual snipers in the USMC and US Army during this era.

You're making assumptions that are just straight up wrong, to be honest. Do some research and it's quite easy to find clear documentation of the history around these weapons, when they were fielded, how widely they were issued and employed in combat.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

So a suppressed M14 is ok but not a Scoped M16? Dood you think everyone was issued one of those? Oh but I guess in your view those are ok because they're already in the game.

Read the history, that's your guide to what was used and what wasn't. The weapons present in RS2 are selected because they were known to be widely fielded.

The M16 was NOT used as a scoped rifle in Vietnam, apart from a - literal - handful of rifles that SOG & Green Beret armorers equipped with scopes for specific missions. Easily available historical records and first hand accounts support this. The M16 was also not used with the 5.56mm Sionics suppressor by anyone outside of various special forces teams, as the subsonic 5.56 cartridges produced at that time did not perform reliably in combat conditions.

The USMC didn't believe in the value of semi-automatic scoped rifles during this time; they stuck with the bolt action M40 for the duration of the Vietnam War for this very reason.

After stateside tests with scoped M16s didn't produce satisfactory results, the US Army developed the M21 by creating a heavily modified, accurized version based on the "national match" build of the M14 that was married to one of several scopes, depending on the intended use. They then developed a further modified version of the M21 mounted with a purpose built suppressor developed by Sionics corporation. The suppressed XM21 was intended for combat at night, as it used subsonic ammunition to greatly reduce the weapon report.

It was also used during daylight operations as well since its reduced firing signature made it a very effective weapon system in a wide range of conditions. There were at least 1,300 of them fielded in various configurations, according to the sources I've dug up. It makes the cut to be included in RS2 because there weren't huge numbers of actual snipers in the USMC and US Army during this era.

You're making assumptions that are just straight up wrong, to be honest. Do some research and it's quite easy to find clear documentation of the history around these weapons, when they were fielded, how widely they were issued and employed in combat.

You forgot one key critical point, Rising Storm 2 is not real life. Its a game intended to be fun with some realism. It would be fun to have a fixed scope M16 to shoot ♥♥♥♥♥ with at 0-200m. I don't care if there were that many or not, I care about making the game more fun, which clearly you do not care about.

[static]

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

You forgot one key critical point, Rising Storm 2 is not real life. Its a game intended to be fun with some realism. I don't care if there were that many or not, I care about making the game more fun, which clearly you do not care about.

I, like most of the other folks on here, find authenticity fun. That focus on historical authenticity is what sets RS2 apart from lots of other military-themed FPS games. It's too bad that you seem unable or unwilling to find value in this perspective, because it's one of the foundational elements in the very design of the game.

You can argue and attack me all you like, but it won't change the facts around which weapons were actually fielded in significant numbers and which were not.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

I like Optics.

[telamiina]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

You forgot one key critical point, Rising Storm 2 is not real life. Its a game intended to be fun with some realism. I don't care if there were that many or not, I care about making the game more fun, which clearly you do not care about.

I, like most of the other folks on here, find authenticity fun. That focus on historical authenticity is what sets RS2 apart from lots of other military-themed FPS games. It's too bad that you seem unable or unwilling to find value in this perspective, because it's one of the foundational elements in the very design of the game.

You can argue and attack me all you like, but it won't change the facts around which weapons were actually fielded in significant numbers and which were not.

+1

There are enough gunfantasy shootters around.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by telamiina:

Originally posted by static:

I, like most of the other folks on here, find authenticity fun. That focus on historical authenticity is what sets RS2 apart from lots of other military-themed FPS games. It's too bad that you seem unable or unwilling to find value in this perspective, because it's one of the foundational elements in the very design of the game.

You can argue and attack me all you like, but it won't change the facts around which weapons were actually fielded in significant numbers and which were not.

+1

There are enough gunfantasy shootters around.

Gun Fantasy sounds like an awesome new genre!

[static]

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Originally posted by telamiina:

+1

There are enough gunfantasy shootters around.

Gun Fantasy sounds like an awesome new genre!

You're in luck, then. I'll let you in on a secret: it's not a new genre.

Go play BF or CoD, plenty of gun fantasies there for you.

[❤Kali-mari Ðes Earth™❤]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by Ðesert™:

Gun Fantasy sounds like an awesome new genre!

You're in luck, then. I'll let you in on a secret: it's not a new genre.

Go play BF or CoD, plenty of gun fantasies there for you.

AAA shooters are trash though.....