Tunnels & American Weapons

[DILF (Damn I Love Freedom)]

So, if you've ever entered a tunnel as a US soldier, you'd know that you're forced to use a secondary, no matter what your primary is. I get it, it's for balancing purposes and such.

But what doesn't make sense is the variants and stock collapsing feature. What's the point of collapsing the grease gun's stock if it doesn't let you use it in the tunnels, and all it does is off-set your aim and make recoil 10 times worse? It doesn't make it any more compact. Same thing with the stakeout variant of the Trench Gun. What's the point of having no stock if all it does is make the gun more difficult to use?

It doesn't make sense, especially when the Vietnamese can use things like the RPG or the RPD inside tunnels when you can't even use something like the grease gun or the shotgun. Just my two cents about the game.

[Maki Nishikino]

Using a sidearm gives you a feel for being a tunnel rat, that is why it's like that. The US did not carry anything firearm wise other than a .38 or .45 caliber handgun when they went in those tunnels. With the stock folded/pushed in free aim is quicker.

[CrashToDesktop]

Originally posted by Bav:

What's the point of collapsing the grease gun's stock if it doesn't let you use it in the tunnels, and all it does is off-set your aim and make recoil 10 times worse? It doesn't make it any more compact. Same thing with the stakeout variant of the Trench Gun. What's the point of having no stock if all it does is make the gun more difficult to use?

Collapsed stocks do make the gun shorter. They also make aiming a lot easier in close quarters.

Also, I can't remember the last time I used the Grease Gun's sights. They're so incredibly ♥♥♥♥ that I just kinda fold the stock as soon as I spawn. Almost don't remember what they look like, and it would be better if I did.

[Big Duke]

its a perk of the communist side, so what.

[Shai`tan]

I think the Grunt carrying M16 etc should be allowed to at LEAST use a knife. It is wack to have our weaps not function in a tunnel, with no other recourse. Nice way to FORCE the Grunt Class to never go into a tunnel. Allow us to have a knife at least to FEEL like we have somewhat of a chance.

[Maki Nishikino]

Originally posted by Shai`tan:

I think the Grunt carrying M16 etc should be allowed to at LEAST use a knife. It is wack to have our weaps not function in a tunnel, with no other recourse. Nice way to FORCE the Grunt Class to never go into a tunnel. Allow us to have a knife at least to FEEL like we have somewhat of a chance.

You can attach the bayonet. It's not "wack" to not be able to fire most weapons in tunnels on the US side. Tunnel rats only used handguns in them, it gives you that feel.

[.bastet.]

The thing that bugs me is that literally every Vietnamese weapon can be used in the tunnels (even a Mosin with the bayonet attached) yet the only two compact weapons the US has (which are delegated to specific classes, and even then not everyone uses them) can't be. It seems silly.

[Maki Nishikino]

Originally posted by hippocampalKitten (j):

The thing that bugs me is that literally every Vietnamese weapon can be used in the tunnels (even a Mosin with the bayonet attached) yet the only two compact weapons the US has (which are delegated to specific classes, and even then not everyone uses them) can't be. It seems silly.

Asymmetrical balance and I already explained this, tunnels rats went into tunnels with a handgun, to simulate this you're not allowed to shoot any other firearm.

[CrashToDesktop]

Originally posted by Maki:

Asymmetrical balance and I already explained this, tunnels rats went into tunnels with a handgun, to simulate this you're not allowed to shoot any other firearm.

There already exists asymetrical balance where 99% of US Forces aren't allowed to fire their primary weapons in tunnels. Giving the Stakeout and the Grease Gun that abilty would increase the value of the weapon and the class as well as preserve the asyemtrical balance (as 99% of soldiers still couldn't use their primary in tunnels). That's perfectly sound balance there.

[Barrack Obama]

Originally posted by The Soldier:

Originally posted by Maki:

Asymmetrical balance and I already explained this, tunnels rats went into tunnels with a handgun, to simulate this you're not allowed to shoot any other firearm.

There already exists asymetrical balance where 99% of US Forces aren't allowed to fire their primary weapons in tunnels. Giving the Stakeout and the Grease Gun that abilty would increase the value of the weapon and the class as well as preserve the asyemtrical balance (as 99% of soldiers still couldn't use their primary in tunnels). That's perfectly sound balance there.

Just pick up a pistol. Tons of classes have them, they're crazy common. If you dont have one then oh well.

[telamiina]

Tunnel rats used pistols etc. as tunnels were mutch smaller than these ones. Vienamese made thight spots on purpose as they were smaller and could defend these easily.
Tunnels were more trawelled by crawling in these spots, no way to use bigger weapons.

I think it is ok as it is.

[.bastet.]

Originally posted by Maki:

Originally posted by hippocampalKitten (j):

The thing that bugs me is that literally every Vietnamese weapon can be used in the tunnels (even a Mosin with the bayonet attached) yet the only two compact weapons the US has (which are delegated to specific classes, and even then not everyone uses them) can't be. It seems silly.

Asymmetrical balance and I already explained this, tunnels rats went into tunnels with a handgun, to simulate this you're not allowed to shoot any other firearm.

I mean you can hardly compare the time spent securing the area, preparing, shedding gear, coming up with a plan, etc of the vast majority of tunnel rats to the quick and large-scale operations seen in game. As with the "make new obscure weapon plz" threads, you have to look at commonly available equipment as well. 1911's were way more common than Grease guns or the Ithaca, and the Stakeout even more rare. If all you have to choose from in a typical frontline infantry unit is the 1911 or something with a full-sized barrel and full-sized stock, you're going to choose the former.

Plus many tunnels were pretty big. Big enough to stockpile weapons, install an HQ and living area, etc. Definitely big enough for the VC/ PAVN to maneuver their weapons, even if they had to do it awkwardly at times. And the retracted stock Grease gun and Stakeout are both smaller than most Northern weapons.

[telamiina]

Should there be tunnelrat as a class in future? Maby in maps (in future) with more and larger tunnels?
1 special dude with customised weapons per team.

But I am affraid it would make thing just to easy to American side?

It would be interesting though.

[static]

The Vietnamese factions get a home field advantage in their own tunnel systems. It's that simple.

I don't think tunnel rats should be their own role; it's already aggregated into the game, with any US soldier possessing a pistol can be plenty effective fighting underground (depending on player tactics and skill, of course).

[Big Duke]

tissues and tampons are going to be implemented at spawns for all of you whining ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[telamiina]

Originally posted by X-BigDukeSix:

tissues and tampons are going to be implemented at spawns for all of you whining ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Why did you ask that?