Why 18rd mags on M16A1?

[frog]

Why are 18rd mags used instead of 20rd mags? I always thought that the US used 20rd'ers and in the game it would make a big difference, 18 shots is enough, but a 20 I think is historically right, or am I wrong?

[Maki Nishikino]

They do have a capacity of 20 rounds but when you load it up to 20 you run into feeding issues, the mag tends to not seat properly. It also allows for a little less wear on the mag spring. I am a bit confused with this because I have a single 30 round USGI mag for my AR-15 and it has no issues when I load it full. I am guessing this was an issue with the mag design of the early 20 rounders.

[frog]

Originally posted by Maki:

With 20 rounds you run into feeding issues, the mag tends to not seat properly. It also allows for a little less wear on the mag spring.

Got it, thanks c:

[Maki Nishikino]

Originally posted by Janeshfear:

Originally posted by Maki:

With 20 rounds you run into feeding issues, the mag tends to not seat properly. It also allows for a little less wear on the mag spring.

Got it, thanks c:

Made an edit.

[IRDCAM]

Historically the magazine spring and follower were flawed resulting in misfeeds if the magazine was full resulting in the excess stress on the spring where the follower would kick nose up the loading round 'stove piping' the round more times than not, or a double feed of two rounds. Took until well into the 70's for the issue to be resolved. The 30rd magazine really did not appear in numbers until late 70's, and the initial 30rd magazines manufactured by Colt also had misfeed issues.

Also the steel case of the 20 and 30rd magazine 'rusted' and made the rounds 'stick' as they were being fed. Almost no one did magazine maintenence so a lot of the magazines had feeding issues.

18 rounds solved the spring stress issue till a real 'fix' was found.

[Vasily Chuikov]

Originally posted by Uncanny Suicide:

Why are 18rd mags used instead of 20rd mags? I always thought that the US used 20rd'ers and in the game it would make a big difference, 18 shots is enough, but a 20 I think is historically right, or am I wrong?

Most soldiers and marines chose to only load 18 rounds in the mag as the weapon often still jammed even with only 20

[jay1s878]

could they make it so there are 2 18rd mags taped together? fast 2nd reload, then a much longer one? (as an option, like how you can pick drum mags for some guns). Just an idea.

[static]

Originally posted by jay1s878:

could they make it so there are 2 18rd mags taped together? fast 2nd reload, then a much longer one? (as an option, like how you can pick drum mags for some guns)

IIRC "jungle taping" of magazines was used by a small number of US soldiers during the Vietnam War. It was notorious for introducing dirt/debris into the exposed, open end of the magazine, which could obviously lead to feed issues/jams in the rifle. It's also harder to fire when prone, since the extra several inches of magazine below your rifle would raise your profile significantly.

The practice originated during WWII in the Pacific Theater, with the military actually producing metal clips for doubling up M3 Grease Gun and M1/M2 Carbine magazines, but I doubt said clips were still issued or used much in the 60s & 70s.

[jay1s878]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by jay1s878:

could they make it so there are 2 18rd mags taped together? fast 2nd reload, then a much longer one? (as an option, like how you can pick drum mags for some guns)

IIRC "jungle taping" of magazines was used by a small number of US soldiers during the Vietnam War. It was notorious for introducing dirt/debris into the exposed, open end of the magazine, which could obviously lead to feed issues/jams in the rifle.

The practice originated during WWII in the Pacific Theater, with the military actually producing metal clips for doubling up M3 Grease Gun and M1/M2 Carbine magazines, but I doubt said clips were still issued or used much in the 60s & 70s.

I thought it was widespread? Whatever. Anyway, what do you think of that idea?

[static]

Originally posted by jay1s878:

Originally posted by static:

IIRC "jungle taping" of magazines was used by a small number of US soldiers during the Vietnam War. It was notorious for introducing dirt/debris into the exposed, open end of the magazine, which could obviously lead to feed issues/jams in the rifle.

The practice originated during WWII in the Pacific Theater, with the military actually producing metal clips for doubling up M3 Grease Gun and M1/M2 Carbine magazines, but I doubt said clips were still issued or used much in the 60s & 70s.

I thought it was widespread? Whatever. Anyway, what do you think of that idea?

It was not widespread.

- Made your weapon heavier and harder to manipulate.
- Depending on how the magazines were arranged, it could raise your profile when prone, and would certainly make it harder to position and fire your weapon when on the ground.
- Since you would always have at least one magazine completely exposed, it greatly increased the risk of dirt and debris getting into the magazine itself and causing weapon malfunctions.
- The open lips of taped magazines could be easily bent or damaged, yet another source of jams and weapon stoppages.

The risks and drawbacks greatly outweigh the only potential benefit, which was somewhat reduced time to reload.

[jay1s878]

Originally posted by static:

Originally posted by jay1s878:

I thought it was widespread? Whatever. Anyway, what do you think of that idea?

It was not widespread.

- Made your weapon heavier and harder to manipulate.
- Raised your profile with prone, and made it harder to position and fire your weapon when on the ground.
- Since you would always have at least one magazine completely exposed, it greatly increased the risk of dirt and debris getting into the magazine itself and causing you weapon malfunctions.
- The open lips of taped magazines could be easily bent or damaged, yet another source of jams and weapon stoppages.

The risks and drawbacks greatly outweigh the only potential benefit, which was somewhat reduced time to reload.

As in, would you think it would fit into the game?

[static]

Originally posted by jay1s878:

As in, would you think it would fit into the game?

I don't want to come off like I'm insulting YOU or your suggestion; it's a fine thing to discuss and is an interesting wrinkle in military firearm history between WWII and Vietnam.

I don't think many soldiers deployed to Vietnam during this time period were taping or clipping their magazines together.

As with all things wacky and weird during the Vietnam War, I'm sure there are a handful of pictures floating around of dudes in American uniform with clipped or taped magazines. Unfortunately, that doesn't confirm this was a widespread or effective technique during this particular conflict.

[IRDCAM]

In the bush as stated taping magazines was not 'common' as stated because of dirt and debris getting into the lower magazine. In the base perimeter bunkers maybe, as were 'cleaner' and a fixed firing position, but the potential need to go prone quick and the oops factor meant in the bush it was not done by 'thinking' troops.