Odd recoil disparity between american machine guns

[Luke]

Anyone else notice how much stronger the recoil is of the 1919 and BAR compared to the M60?

It's pretty controllable in ADS but from the hip the 1919 and BAR go way more off target than the M60, which is lighter than both (without ammo) I think

I know the 1919 is considerably more awkward to handle, but it's also much much heavier and really shouldn't be moving much at all in any form of firing be it from the hip, bipod or ADS unless standing/crouching which shouldn't be more recoil, but a ton of sway

The BAR's bipod I can see causing really terrible recoil patterns due to muzzle weight, and pretty much everyone hated them in real life, it also came with a belt cup attachment for making hipfire incredibly easy and pretty accurate, though this is probably more of a WW1 accessory, dunno if they used them into WW2 or even vietnam

The slowfire on the BAR is also mapped to "semi", which means if you use the default to semi option you're going to spawn on slowfire (which is horrible and just made recoil worse in real life for the sake of ammunition consumption)

It's already pretty hard to justify the use of the BAR unless used as a heavy assault rifle used for spraying through walls, because even an AK or M16 does the job of suppression as good or slightly worse than the BAR

Weight needs to have more of an impact: Heavy guns have little recoil, but carrying that thing + your possible 400 rounds of ammo means you ain't sprinting without being heavily out of breath

Belts also need to be considerably more awkward to deal with, especially the cloth belts of the 1919 which would hell to work with in the damp dirty environment of the jungle.

[Dog]

the recoil of almost all the guns in this game is off.

[Vimy Glide]

the 1919's recoil was jacked up because it was horrifically OP before

[Luke]

quick google search:

M60 is about 23 pounds
M1919A4 is 31 pounds

So tell me how something that weighs almost twice as much and shoots basically the same cartridge now magically has insane recoil compared to it's much lighter little brother? No ergonomics can account for that

None of the other weapons in RS2 were balanced with this sort of thing in mind from what I can see, it's not like the RPD is an AA gun past the first round, the M60 is completely controllable and the new weapons seem to have completely different design philosophies.

Not to mention how some peep sights like on the M3 are completely open and usable, and the MAT, M14, and M16 etc. are basically unchanged? the game is internally inconsistant.

When did we start balancing guns by taking piecemeal advice from the community?

So is recoil to weight ratio now magically inverse (against the laws of physics) because someone complained about "OP" recoil on a machine gun which can literally be taken out in 1 shot by the multitudes of automatic firearm equipped grunts?

This isn't even like the MG42 in RO2 where you were facing bolt action armed peasants, its modern warfare where the average weapon has a hi cap magazine.

[Vimy Glide]

Originally posted by Luke:

snip

when did i justify anything

[Luke]

Originally posted by Whistleblower:

Originally posted by Luke:

snip

when did i justify anything

You imply that it was justified because you say "It was horrifically OP"

Saying "1919 had it's recoil increased because it was OP" is pretty much the textbook definition of a justification.

[Vimy Glide]

Originally posted by Luke:

You imply that it was justified because you say "It was horrifically OP"

Saying "1919 had it's recoil increased because it was OP" is pretty much the textbook definition of a justification.

it was OP, but i never said the way they went about nerfing it was a good idea in the slightest. besides, that's like saying that if i said "communism was created to destroy inequality", i'm a communist. i'm not. i'm just stating why it happened.
that's not a justification. it's a reason. that doesn't mean the solution was good.

[Luke]

Yeah you're right about that

[Vimy Glide]

...that said, i agree that weight should have more of an impact. i can barely feel it rn lol

i still think it would've been better if they just made the M1919 (and maybe the DP28) hipfire only when not using the bipod, since it apparently was an utter ♥♥♥♥♥ to shoulder, to the point where it might as well be impossible

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

What you also have to consider is the ergonomics of each weapon.

The M60 was designed to be fired from the shoulder by a single operator. In fact the M60 isn't even a new design. The M60 is quite literally a belt fed FG42 with modern improvements of the time.
The M1919A6 on the other hand was the LMG version of the M1919 MMG. "Realistically" it would be damn near impossible to shoulder fire the weapon at all. Let alone use it with any amount of control.

Weight isn't the only factor for recoil. And even with the M60s design firing from the shoulder still isn't optimal.


The M1919 got its nerf because the only alternative would be to not allow it to shoulder fire. No ADS when unmounted. Plus it used to actually be better than the M60 because of the reasons you described Luke lol.

[Luke]

I would really be just fine if the horrible issues of the 1919 were equally horrible in game

Make it basically useless to shoulder fire, but hipfire a lot better than the M60, you should move way slower and reloads should be pretty slow.

The 1919 is literally an aircooled WW1 machine gun, it should probably be a bit bulky and awkward to work with.

Just the stock design of the 1919 would make me shudder at even trying to shoulder fire it.

The DP28 could and should be able to be aimed, it wasn't particularly heavy by WW2 standards, the only problems would be the somewhat awkward stock and unwieldy pan mag.