M60

[Mossol]

Why is it so inaccurate?

Even short 4-5 round bursts are not even close to hitting where I aim.

I never shot a M60 but I find it hard to believe it was this inaccurate. Also its supression effects are too low in my opinion. I give full surpressive fire (and considering the accuracy this thing has or lack off my bullets fly everywhere down range) how is it possible a ♥♥♥♥ in the area I am firing in can pop his head up and make a dead accurate shot. I find that hard to believe and not very realistic.

Its little things like this that all add up and make RS2 an unenjoyable experience in comparison to the gunplay of RO2.

[plonker]

Why can't we change out the barrels?

[Fezzy]

Originally posted by Jokkie:

Why can't we change out the barrels?

because it takes way to long has to many steps and misalignes the sights.

and its not innaccurate its just always ranged for 300m while everything else is almost always 100m its harder to learn but once the M60 clicks its to much fun not to use, that and you really dont need to be accurate with it.

[Mossol]

Originally posted by Jokkie:

Why can't we change out the barrels?

Yeah another ''little thing'', all those things add up to a pile of gameplay flaws that make the game such a pain in the ass to play.

But the devs are really busy I assume with what nobody knows considering we only have like 4 maps post release lol.

[Mossol]

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

Originally posted by Jokkie:

Why can't we change out the barrels?

because it takes way to long has to many steps and misalignes the sights.

and its not innaccurate its just always ranged for 300m while everything else is almost always 100m its harder to learn but once the M60 clicks its to much fun not to use, that and you really dont need to be accurate with it.

https://youtu.be/jPPbEDO1Xqo

Argument is invalid (skip to 5:25).

The barrelswap on a MG42 or MG34 is more cumbersome but didnt result in the feature being removed from RO2.

[plonker]

Originally posted by Mossol:

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

because it takes way to long has to many steps and misalignes the sights.

and its not innaccurate its just always ranged for 300m while everything else is almost always 100m its harder to learn but once the M60 clicks its to much fun not to use, that and you really dont need to be accurate with it.

https://youtu.be/jPPbEDO1Xqo

Argument is invalid (skip to 5:25).

The barrelswap on a MG42 or MG34 is more cumbersome but didnt result in the feature being removed from RO2.

I just watched that video. LOL

They also had specific m60 barrel bags that can be dragged. I have a Vietnam era one in my closet.

[Fezzy]

Originally posted by Mossol:

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

because it takes way to long has to many steps and misalignes the sights.

and its not innaccurate its just always ranged for 300m while everything else is almost always 100m its harder to learn but once the M60 clicks its to much fun not to use, that and you really dont need to be accurate with it.

https://youtu.be/jPPbEDO1Xqo

Argument is invalid (skip to 5:25).

The barrelswap on a MG42 or MG34 is more cumbersome but didnt result in the feature being removed from RO2.

that barrel must not have been very hot because a barrel that would need real feild swaping wouldnt have been grabbed like that unless the operator wanted medical leave you NEEDED a an aspestos glove, and after you changed it you had tp realign the sights. not many people swapped barrels on the M60 under fire infact most were told never to do so.

and swapping MG42 barrels is not cumbersome at all it took 5 seconds and had no side effects infact German MGs were tought to change them whenever they could they would carry several barrels and swap them in and out allowing each one to cool.

its as unnecesary as weapon jams, if the M60 gets to a point that you cant shoot it from heat thats your fault and you have to put up with it because you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up.

[plonker]

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

Originally posted by Mossol:

https://youtu.be/jPPbEDO1Xqo

Argument is invalid (skip to 5:25).

The barrelswap on a MG42 or MG34 is more cumbersome but didnt result in the feature being removed from RO2.

that barrel must not have been very hot because a barrel that would need real feild swaping wouldnt have been grabbed like that unless the operator wanted medical leave you NEEDED a an aspestos glove, and after you changed it you had tp realign the sights. not many people swapped barrels on the M60 under fire infact most were told never to do so.

and swapping MG42 barrels is not cumbersome at all it took 5 seconds and had no side effects infact German MGs were tought to change them whenever they could they would carry several barrels and swap them in and out allowing each one to cool.

its as unnecesary as weapon jams, if the M60 gets to a point that you cant shoot it from heat thats your fault and you have to put up with it because you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up.

GOTTA WORRY ABOUT ASPESTOS IN A FIRE FIGHT!

AND THOSE OH SO IMPORTANT SIGHTS ON THE SUPPORT MACHINE GUN IN THE JUNGLE!

[Fezzy]

Originally posted by Jokkie:

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

that barrel must not have been very hot because a barrel that would need real feild swaping wouldnt have been grabbed like that unless the operator wanted medical leave you NEEDED a an aspestos glove, and after you changed it you had tp realign the sights. not many people swapped barrels on the M60 under fire infact most were told never to do so.

and swapping MG42 barrels is not cumbersome at all it took 5 seconds and had no side effects infact German MGs were tought to change them whenever they could they would carry several barrels and swap them in and out allowing each one to cool.

its as unnecesary as weapon jams, if the M60 gets to a point that you cant shoot it from heat thats your fault and you have to put up with it because you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up.

GOTTA WORRY ABOUT ASPESTOS IN A FIRE FIGHT!

AND THOSE OH SO IMPORTANT SIGHTS ON THE SUPPORT MACHINE GUN IN THE JUNGLE!

It's not the fact it's asbestos you have to worry about it's the fact that most people lost or just got rid of the nearly necessary glove, and yes sights do matter if enemies are close enough that you don't need sights then you can't change the barrel, hell what's an m60 really going to do in 40-20m gun fights anyway why would you be laying down and dropping fire? You would be taking shortbursts from the hip. Basicly in no scenario would barrel swapping be useful, necessary, fun, or even very accurate to the firefights.

[Vasily Chuikov]

Use the bipod and it'll be accurate, if you're firing prone with the bipod it'll be even more accurate. If you're not using the bipod and you're firing it on the move then fold it up (push c).

[plonker]

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

Originally posted by Jokkie:

GOTTA WORRY ABOUT ASPESTOS IN A FIRE FIGHT!

AND THOSE OH SO IMPORTANT SIGHTS ON THE SUPPORT MACHINE GUN IN THE JUNGLE!

It's not the fact it's asbestos you have to worry about it's the fact that most people lost or just got rid of the nearly necessary glove, and yes sights do matter if enemies are close enough that you don't need sights then you can't change the barrel, hell what's an m60 really going to do in 40-20m gun fights anyway why would you be laying down and dropping fire? You would be taking shortbursts from the hip. Basicly in no scenario would barrel swapping be useful, necessary, fun, or even very accurate to the firefights.

1. Some used gloves, some kept gloves, some lost gloves in combat and out.

2. You could change the barrel out by using the bipod, reducing your chances of getting burned.

3. The sights on the spare barrel would be zero'd to the weapon itself.

4. Its useless to talk about "what ifs" when your battle scenario lacks enough detail. It would be stupid for an M60 gunner to always fire from the hip if enemies are that close.

5. It's useful so you don't get that annoying steam effect blocking your sight. That means its necessary. That means more fun because you get to lay down more lead.

6. It's historically accurate because it happened.

7. The frogmen used a chopped down version of the M60, which had no sights. Perfect for close engagements. So perfectly aligned sights after a barrel swap is not that important of an issue in Vietnam.

8. Cease and desist.

[Fezzy]

Originally posted by Jokkie:

Originally posted by Fezzy (the imperial gaurd):

It's not the fact it's asbestos you have to worry about it's the fact that most people lost or just got rid of the nearly necessary glove, and yes sights do matter if enemies are close enough that you don't need sights then you can't change the barrel, hell what's an m60 really going to do in 40-20m gun fights anyway why would you be laying down and dropping fire? You would be taking shortbursts from the hip. Basicly in no scenario would barrel swapping be useful, necessary, fun, or even very accurate to the firefights.

1. Some used gloves, some kept gloves, some lost gloves in combat and out.

2. You could change the barrel out by using the bipod, reducing your chances of getting burned.

3. The sights on the spare barrel would be zero'd to the weapon itself.

4. Its useless to talk about "what ifs" when your battle scenario lacks enough detail. It would be stupid for an M60 gunner to always fire from the hip if enemies are that close.

5. It's useful so you don't get that annoying steam effect blocking your sight. That means its necessary. That means more fun because you get to lay down more lead.

6. It's historically accurate because it happened.

7. The frogmen used a chopped down version of the M60, which had no sights. Perfect for close engagements. So perfectly aligned sights after a barrel swap is not that important of an issue in Vietnam.

8. Cease and desist.

(really pissed off because I wrote a really long thing thats ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gone because power outage so excuse any mistakes)

I talked to 10 friends that served during the time of the M60 2 were in hue 3 were marines that went all over vietnam 3 rangers 2 were in mogadishu 1 was somehwere but wolnt say 1 in gernada and 1 in afganastan.

the five in vietnam all basicly said the same thing ♥♥♥♥ barrel swapping never get mud all over it the ammo was heavy you know the normal stuff but one story I was told was about a guy trying to hot swap getting his face blown off and another trying to swap the barrel and getting burned super badly grabbing the bipod because he didnt have a glove. one of them complained about having to keep re-zeroing the sights after ever swap and how much that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ his aim.

the two rangers that were in mogadishu loved the M60 they sing it praises the one who actaully used it said and now owns one (thats a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 65K gun man) that i got all my M60 experiance from said
"That thing kept me and my buddies alive better than any air support i loved its kick the smell it made when it got hot and burned oil i loved how it sounded, ♥♥♥♥ it i loved how it made holes brick walls like they were paper but ♥♥♥♥ repalcing those barrels first time i needed to replace a barrel i didnt even have one they didnt issue my platoon spares, luckly i was close to a mech guy who had one but even he didnt have one of those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ yellow cancer pads i had to take an m16 strap and wrap the sight and yank it real quick like to get it off, nearly got me killed after that i never swapped barrels again under fire."

The one who doesnt talk about his time in somalia much he just kind of said the gun was fine i didnt press to much because he has some serious PTSD like he boarded all the windows on his house put barbed wire up all around his house and has regular mental break downs.

the one in gernada said few guys were given spare barrels at all and he never really saw any change them out.

the guy from afganastan has talked exstensivly to me about it because im one of the few people that goes to his hobby shop and listens to his reservist stories he liked the M60 "good gun the only thing i didnt like was the trigger assembly and barrel i myself never got to use one in a real combat situation but the guys who did kept me alive so i cant fault it to much.

The bipod is to hot to touch aswell in cases where you need to hotswap your still going to be burned pretty badly, even then later model M60s bipod was welded to the gun and not the barrel.

No the sights were welded to the new barrel and would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ when you changed them even the wiki artical on the M60 states this.

The smoke is punishment for misusing the gun you dont fire an M60 for 50 straight rounds unless its mounted and you have time to swap barrels which in most cases in the game you dont.

and sure the frogmens sawed of m60 is great in CQB your not swapping barrels in CQB you shouldnt even need to swap out in CQB

Im talking about HOT SWAPS the MG42 was great at hot swaping because you flipped a switch the old barrel fell out and you shoved the new one in, it took five seconds and you didnt even need to leave the prone position, the M60 required you exposing yourself and needed a way heavier barrel and glove that could be lost it was dangerous and only done if you had a damn good place to do it like a fox hole or building or good trench and thats if you were issued extra barrels.

[Simulacra_53]

Originally posted by Vasily Chuikov:

Use the bipod and it'll be accurate, if you're firing prone with the bipod it'll be even more accurate. If you're not using the bipod and you're firing it on the move then fold it up (push c).

+1

Go prone or rest your weapon on some item (look at symbol)
Use your bipod, fold up if you expect to hip fire.

Short bursts only.

LMGs are all about placement and covering fire.
At the right place it is brutally effective.

[IRDCAM]

The M-60 by nature is not as accurate as a rifle, it bounces like any other light machinegun from the physics of recoil and you get a bounce pattern called a cone of fire, down range. Even locked into a tripod and traverse and elevation mechanisum it bounces so there is a cone of fire not pinpoint accuracy.

I carried and M-60, understand what it can and can not do, and the ingame representation to me is pretty close. You aim a little low and let the short burst walk iiself into the target, you aim directly at the target the rounds more than likely go high, nature of the beast. You 'zero'd ' the weapon at 250m where your three rounds (you actually only had a three round belt in the gun) had a center of its cone of fire in the desired area. 250m is the practical range of man's eyesight where he can still distinguish shape/color/contrast. Outside of that the target in iron sights is a blob. Your beaten zone at 800m is still the same shape as the 250m cone of fire just elonggated because of range. We did this at a 10m range back in the day, manual says the 10m range the sight is set at 500m, so we got an approximation of the cone of fire at 250m.

As for the spare barrel, the front sight is fixed on the barrel there is no adjustment, and the rear sight has the standard elevation/range and windage adjustment. Once you have that rear sight adjusted, you assure the same cheek weld to the gun, and the gun is accurate enough when you change the barrel. That is pure bull that you have to readjust the sights when you change the barrel.

The gun is air cooled so trigger management is the gunners primary goal in training and aplication. The lubricant of the time was called LSA, Lubricant Small Arms, a elmers glue consistancy liquid lubricant that stuck to the surface of the metal. You heat it up by firing, it 'smokes' how are we not surprised? So in cleaning and preping the gun a light coat was applied to all gun metal surfaces to prevent 'rusting' as in that tropical enviornment rust statrted on bare gun metal within hours.

You could 'blip' the trigger for one round once praticed, but the goal was a 6-9 round burst, 3 mississippi's and repeat, and like stated you got a cone of fire because of the natural 'bounce' of the gun due to the physics of recoil.

Again the M-60 was designed as a suppression weapon as all light, medium and heavy machineguns are, you just practiced having that target in the guns overall cone of fire, that's about it.

Though the only difference from the Vietnam era and modern era, is the reference to modern CLP (Cleaner Lubricant Protectant) rather than the Vietnam era LSA (Lubricant Small Arms) this is the Field Manual chapter on the M60

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-68/c02.htm

[Mossol]

Like I love playing support roles as MG gunner and supress the enemy.

But no matter how much rounds I send downrange I never have the idea that supressive fire is an actual tactic to be used ingame. Recovery from supression effects are either too fast, or your enemy can fire too accurately after being hit with 7.62 supressive fire.

I am not bad at the game, can pretty easily get 40-50 kills each round in the normal classes, but with the MG I can't use it where it was meant for and that was for keeping heads down. VC seems so unaffected by it.

[Simulacra_53]

Originally posted by Mossol:

I am not bad at the game, can pretty easily get 40-50 kills each round in the normal classes, but with the MG I can't use it where it was meant for and that was for keeping heads down. VC seems so unaffected by it.

getting 40-50 kills a game itself means something is wrong in the game.