Machine guns and tracer rounds

[CaptainVietnam]

So it seems like every 5th bullet or so a tracer round is shot from the machine gun. Wich is nice because hey I know were my bullets are going but so does the enemy. The tracer rounds tend to just give you away after shooting a few bullets here and there. I see no real pont in haveing them when at most i'm shooting and 100m-300m.

What tends to happen when I'm on a machine gun is that I shoot and kill around 3 people if i'm lucky before I am forced to move becuse now everyone knows my location. While the rifflemen can sit in one spot for hours on end because he dosen't shoot a bullet lazer that gives up his postion. I am trying to like the machine guns but they just seem so bad and restrictive compared to just useing and m16 or ak.

Cons of useing a machine gun
-you are slow
-cqc tends to be a bad idea
-tracer rounds
-takes time to set up
-innaccurate unless mounted
-slow reload (not really an issue)

pros
-More ammo at any given time
-can still zoom in holding down shift
-can be resupplyed
-good pentration
-suppresion (aka come shoot me I'm right here)

I can't really defend machine guns on this stage of the game they are just not as good as infantry. I think a big part of it for me is the tracer rounds if we had an option to not have them it would be so much better to set up and use them properly instead of the shoot move shoot move we have now.

I'm fine if this never gets addresed I would just rather use a riffle then a machine gun to do the same job. It takes a lot less time to reload my gun then to move to a new location every 2-3 kills or so.

[Zeno]

Originally posted by Captain Vietnam:

So it seems like every 5th bullet or so a tracer round is shot from the machine gun. Wich is nice because hey I know were my bullets are going but so does the enemy. The tracer rounds tend to just give you away after shooting a few bullets here and there. I see no real pont in haveing them when at most i'm shooting and 100m-300m.

What tends to happen when I'm on a machine gun is that I shoot and kill around 3 people if i'm lucky before I am forced to move becuse now everyone knows my location. While the rifflemen can sit in one spot for hours on end because he dosen't shoot a bullet lazer that gives up his postion. I am trying to like the machine guns but they just seem so bad and restrictive compared to just useing and m16 or ak.

Cons of useing a machine gun
-you are slow
-cqc tends to be a bad idea
-tracer rounds
-takes time to set up
-innaccurate unless mounted
-slow reload (not really an issue)

pros
-More ammo at any given time
-can still zoom in holding down shift
-can be resupplyed
-good pentration
-suppresion (aka come shoot me I'm right here)

I can't really defend machine guns on this stage of the game they are just not as good as infantry. I think a big part of it for me is the tracer rounds if we had an option to not have them it would be so much better to set up and use them properly instead of the shoot move shoot move we have now.

I'm fine if this never gets addresed I would just rather use a riffle then a machine gun to do the same job. It takes a lot less time to reload my gun then to move to a new location every 2-3 kills or so.

Even if I don't necessarily recognise this as an issue.

I think we should be able to actually choose the type of ammo we are using. It perfectly works for shotungs, it should work for all other weapons too.

I.e I want to be able to add tracer rounds to my M16 and AK mags, same as I want to choose my rocket for my RPG if it's anti-person or made to penetrate walls. or HP ammo for SMGs etc etc....there are so many options and this would make the game so much more diverse and interesting.

And yes, choosing tracer or not tracer rounds for MGs should also be a thing.

[Big Duke]

wow..... just..... wow

[Zenith]

You really should be able to run belts without tracers, with some sort of drawback to balance it out. As it stands, unless you are sitting somewhere the enemy can't hit you, as soon as you start lighting them up you're going to get a round in the noggin.

[The Pollie]

Like Battlefield 4, suppression-based classes are crap. Unless you completely catch the enemy by surprise, any decent player will head-shot you twice in the time it takes to set up, five more times in the span of you suppressing one area.

You start setting up, and assuming you aren't instantly pegged by 1 of 15-30 people watching the area, you start firing and immediately draw fire from everyone, and maybe 1/3rd of them are adequately suppressed to ensure you aren't instantly shot dead. People using the MG seem to learn real fast that any effort to setup a base of fire just results in you being instantly domepieced from range.

[IRDCAM]

The standard packing of belted 7.62X51 for the M-60 was 4 and 1, 4 'ball' and 1 tracer, that's how the 100rd boxes, 2 to a ammo can came from the factory. Imagine the time required to pull every 5th round and replace with a 'ball' from every 100rd M-60 belt in the ASP.

And 'rule' was you fired 50 rounds and moved so you did not catch the returning rounds.

Any yes the addage was: "tracers work both ways".

[static]

I've read a lot on the Vietnam War over the years. Also raised by a Vietnam War veteran.

The only units I've ever read about who actually had the option and ability to regularly change tracer loads in MG belts were lavishly equipped special forces teams.

It's just not something a soldier in a conventional unit would be able to do or request, even if they or the armorer cared enough to WANT to take on that much tedious work.

[Zenith]

Originally posted by The Pollie:

Like Battlefield 4, suppression-based classes are crap. Unless you completely catch the enemy by surprise, any decent player will head-shot you twice in the time it takes to set up, five more times in the span of you suppressing one area.

You start setting up, and assuming you aren't instantly pegged by 1 of 15-30 people watching the area, you start firing and immediately draw fire from everyone, and maybe 1/3rd of them are adequately suppressed to ensure you aren't instantly shot dead. People using the MG seem to learn real fast that any effort to setup a base of fire just results in you being instantly domepieced from range.

This.

The RPD is slightly better in this regard, as you use it like a belt fed AK, but the M60 is practically useless for its intended role.

[Spaghetti Western]

It has been common practice to have tracers placed @ regular intervals throughout the mg belts & Ak magazines etc, reasoning being it gave some visual indication on remaining ammunition.

I.e for example an Ak would be loaded with a tracer every 10th round & then the final 3 rounds would be loaded as all tracer - indicating that its time to reload, or risk going dry in this deadliest game!

[GammaZeta430]

Originally posted by Zenith:

Originally posted by The Pollie:

Like Battlefield 4, suppression-based classes are crap. Unless you completely catch the enemy by surprise, any decent player will head-shot you twice in the time it takes to set up, five more times in the span of you suppressing one area.

You start setting up, and assuming you aren't instantly pegged by 1 of 15-30 people watching the area, you start firing and immediately draw fire from everyone, and maybe 1/3rd of them are adequately suppressed to ensure you aren't instantly shot dead. People using the MG seem to learn real fast that any effort to setup a base of fire just results in you being instantly domepieced from range.

This.

The RPD is slightly better in this regard, as you use it like a belt fed AK, but the M60 is practically useless for its intended role.

+2. MGs are far inferior to rifleman/guerilla classes. (or even shotgun classes with their 100 yard range for that matter )

The issue with MGs will always be the same in an non arcade FPS as The Pollie stated. I don't know why but they do work well in Squad though (maybe the different suppression effect + slow movement + rifle sway system it has?). I always feel like I can hold down a position and lay decent suppression. I say this because when I'm discovered by a non-scope class, the first few returning rounds usually are near misses adding immersion & a time to go indicator. Where as in the RO series, especially RS2, after the first 10-15 rounds the general first return fire shot (sometimes from the people I'm even trying to suppress!) is right to my head (that or suppression & bullet impact sounds are still bugged).

[ETucc]

Originally posted by X-BigDukeSix:

wow..... just..... wow

^
Everyone is talking in circles about this, while MG roles consistently produce the most kills per map.

What are we talking about here?

[GwynnTheGreen]

Tracer rounds do in fact serve another purpose. Just like in real military firefights they're for pointing out the location of the enemy to the rest of the squad. And also "Suppression based classes are worthless"? Is that why everyone runs around gunning from the hip, exept THEY DONT.

[Big Duke]

Originally posted by ETucc:

Originally posted by X-BigDukeSix:

wow..... just..... wow

^
Everyone is talking in circles about this, while MG roles consistently produce the most kills per map.

What are we talking about here?

no doubt. i couldnt even manage a reply to the ridiculous post.

[Catatonic Twitch Streamer]

With a feature to mark enemies and have a radar constantly scanning for enemies and putting them on the map, I really don't need tracer rounds. They just put you at a disadvantage.

[CaptainVietnam]

Originally posted by ETucc:

Originally posted by X-BigDukeSix:

wow..... just..... wow

^
Everyone is talking in circles about this, while MG roles consistently produce the most kills per map.

What are we talking about here?

That would be commander that does that. I don't really see all that many top fragging machine gunners (normally am top fragging with anything besdies machine gun since I don't use it). This post is more about how tracers are actully negatively affecting the machine gunner and how a rifflemen can do his job besides suppresion better then he can due to tracers.

[Big Duke]

Originally posted by Captain Vietnam:

Originally posted by ETucc:

^
Everyone is talking in circles about this, while MG roles consistently produce the most kills per map.

What are we talking about here?

That would be commander that does that. I don't really see all that many top fragging machine gunners (normally am top fragging with anything besdies machine gun since I don't use it). This post is more about how tracers are actully negatively affecting the machine gunner and how a rifflemen can do his job besides suppresion better then he can due to tracers.

then go play rifleman