US weapon bullet damage - Thoughts

[Solite]

I know the arguments surrounding the M16 and its bullet damage. Surprisingly, my argument isn't about necessarily changing the damage output for the M16. I think it could use a little tweaking/strengthening, but ultimately I think it's in an OK spot for now.

My problem with bullet damage lies with the weapons that would be shooting .308 caliber ammunition on the US side, I.E the M60 and the M14/XML weapon types.

In my last round, utilizing the XML sniper, it took on average 2-3 hits to down an enemy at a distance ranging from 100-200 meters. These are full on body shots (so far as I can tell). It seemed that if they were running, they absorbed the damage far more then if they were still, in which it was typically 1-2 shots. If the enemy was still, anywhere in the upper body was usually a 1 shot kill, but not always. If the enemy is moving, this metric changes enormously to 2-3 shots needed for a kill pretty much every time. Distance is also a weird modifier it seems, in that far range shots going out to 300 meters typically would take 2-3 shots, even when enemies were still.

In another game on Hue, I found an alley flank spot, and started shooting sweeping fire to cut off reinforcements with the M60. The amount of tagged shots and assists I got was unreal. Rarely I would get kills even when leading an enemy that was running. I would wound them, but rarely would it be an instant kill at a range of 20-50 meters. The only time a kill was guaranteed was when I focused all my fire on one enemy, and it seemed that it would take 2-3 shots for a kill, albeit easier that it's a machine gun, but the point still stands.

That point being, the .308 round is a particularly potent man-killer. It goes to serve that the US is very enemic this wave, even with its special weapons. I understand that risks of changing the M14's damage output considering anyone can use it as a grunt, but the fact is that most weapons used by the US don't do NEARLY enough to stop an enemy. Especially with the weapons that are using some particularly big bullets to do so.

What are your thoughts?

[Perfect Femcell]

i agree i dont play the us but if i did your argument would sound valid

[Necramonium™]

I have seen many times that i hit a NVA/VC soldier, and they just keep running even after the second hit. I don't know if its just the servers crapping out or the hit detection messing up. Even shot a guy straight in the head with a SVD from 5 meters and saw the blood spurting out and he still killed me.

[Jagdwyre]

Originally posted by Sgt.Nightfire:

I have seen many times that i hit a NVA/VC soldier, and they just keep running even after the second hit. I don't know if its just the servers crapping out or the hit detection messing up. Even shot a guy straight in the head with a SVD from 5 meters and saw the blood spurting out and he still killed me.

I had to shoot a guy with an SVD 3 times once to kill him. Every hit was confirmed with a blood animation too. I also had to hit someone with an M60 3 times to kill them as well at one point.

Either there's something up with servers or people can take WAY too much damage to their limbs before dying. Those are the only two explanations I have.
You should only be able to survive one limb shot from a full power rifle round, after that you should be dead regardless of where it hits you.

[Perfect Femcell]

Originally posted by Sgt.Nightfire:

I have seen many times that i hit a NVA/VC soldier, and they just keep running even after the second hit. I don't know if its just the servers crapping out or the hit detection messing up. Even shot a guy straight in the head with a SVD from 5 meters and saw the blood spurting out and he still killed me.

i sprayed a guy point blank with a ak in the chest and uper legs with over half my clip before he turned and 1 hit me with a m16 its booth teams who are haveing hit detection but the 7.62 and 308 get it worst than most other bullets in this game

[Dropdead]

Originally posted by Jagdwyre:

You should only be able to survive one limb shot from a full power rifle round, after that you should be dead regardless of where it hits you.

Actually... in real life, you can survive being shot in the arms and legs. Tho a high velocity round can & will shatter bones if it hits the right spot, rendering the wonder soldier virtually useless (which virtually translates to death in video games such as Soldier of Fortune & Soldier of Fortune 2... for those who've played these games, you sure can remember what a shotgun to a leg does! :P)

Back on point. 7.62x39/7.62x51mm rounds are pretty deadly in the upper torso region. Any hit on the left upper torso as well as the head section will instantly kill an attacker for sure. But anywhere on the right lower body section, a soldier could survive... probably not for long without proper medical attention BUT a person would probably still be able to fight back until shock & blood loss kills them.

RS & RO2 had this "fade to black" when critically wounded... that was cool.

Now I do understand that I may be way off topic here but... that's my view on said topic and I felt like sharing it! :)

[orange slut]

I believe it is less that the guns and damage are bad. More so the hit detection and ping of the servers are shoddy. I have been able to one shot people with the M16, but just as many times as when that happens... it fails to kill anything. It seems that even larger cailber weapons have pretty anemic damage as well. Which was is your concern, and it is well thought out. I have found myself needing to hit people twice or more with an M14. Where really the only claim to fame it has, is that it is a bit more accurate and harder hitting. Therefore, if for some reason Tripwire fails to deliever on higher damages of .30 caliber weapons. Yes, you will see continual occurences where the US guns simply fail to stop anything.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Damage on those higher calibre weapons used to be way worse.

They simulate over-penetration now. A round going through and through but without expanding inside the body.

But they don't quite consider what different parts of the body are made out of.

Anything hitting the rib cage is going to put someone on the ground. As bits of bone become fragmentation and the round itself either shattering or being knocked from its perfect trajectory, slowing down and making a big hole in someone.

Below the ribcage you have a lot of relatively uneccesary organs (for the short term) but most are extremely painful if they get damaged. A through and through round in the lower abdomen you could potentially walk off as long as it didn't hit anything particulary painful, that bled lots of that restricted movement.

You could also possibly get lucky with something going between your ribs and through a lung. It could break your ribs upon exit with little problems. As long as your other lung doesn't full with blood you can still be conbat effective. There's a medical procedure to stab people who got shot in the lung in another part of the lung so the blood exits without clogging up the airway.

But most of the time you'll be on the ground after being hit by one of those. 7.62.51 NATO is also a lot more effective at putting people down than 7.62x54r. Just by looking at the size of the holes left behind.


The .308 round does more damage at range than it does close range in this game.


Slight side note but in WW2 the round that put the biggest holes in people was the .303 british. It cavitated earlier than the rest and bigger than the rest. It had a slower muzzle velocity than the other rounds and it was actually an 8mm round rather than 7.62. It sounds smaller than the american rounds but a .303 british is actually .311 calibre.