Is full-time Micro-race-strategy-manage really necessarily?

[Vince]

At the beginning, I want to raise a question that what is the role we all playing in Motorsport Manager?

From my point of view, we as the players of the Game are the manager of a racing team. A manage is NOT the person who combined with owner, CEO, coach and mechanics. For example, most of the players of MM also play Football Manager. In FM, as the manager of a football club, we seat in the bench and watching the 11 players in the field fight for the team, in the meantime, we give these players some instructions, but we are not controlling every move of them in the field. Otherwise, it would be FIFA 17 or PES 2017.

Now, in this new patch, the devs of MM want us all be a Driver during the race. We need to tuning the DAMN strategy all the time, if you keep the same strategy during a whole lap, the result would definitely be a disaster. I’ve watched the AI driver and they almost adjust they strategy in very corner. This is impossible for us, we have 2 cars in running at the same time, we can’t adjust our strategy so frequently. If the developers want me to adjusting like this, I would rather play a game called F1 2017, using a Xbox controller, by which I can easily adjust every aspect during all time in a race.

Just let the driver do drivers job, and the manager do managers work, for Christ Sake. My drives call me boss, which means, my Job during the race is to decide when my driver need pit stop, to give orders one or two times in a lap, telling them some principle of the race. And it’s my drives job to balance the tyres and fuel, to decide when to slow down and when to speed up in the circuit.

At last, me myself never had any experience of a racing team. If it more realistic that a manager shall tell the driver how to drive in very corner, about when to speed up and when to slow down, then I’d admit that I should consider play F1 2017.

I want be a Manager, just like in FM.

[Frodo]

Wait. How can you see the AI strategy?

[Hikyu]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Unless you're not racing the other car for position.

LoL! Then in this case it would be useful manuale behavior!

[Tig_green]

Originally posted by Frodo:

Wait. How can you see the AI strategy?

Hoover over standings table or click on a driver, you see what modes they are using.

[Kapika96]

If you really want to micromanage everything you can use the pause button...

But you absolutely do not need to. Besides, leaving strategy entirely up to the driver is a bad idea. Just try having a rogue driver for awhile, you'll see that they perform much worse than when you set their modes (or at least they did for me, may vary depending on your skill level)

[Hikyu]

Originally posted by Kapi96:

If you really want to micromanage everything you can use the pause button...

But you absolutely do not need to. Besides, leaving strategy entirely up to the driver is a bad idea. Just try having a rogue driver for awhile, you'll see that they perform much worse than when you set their modes (or at least they did for me, may vary depending on your skill level)

Infact entirely seems to me too much, IMO have an automatic\manual mode like in qualifying could be useful, in some cases... I think is also more realistic, if you have a good driver (an this can be an idea for a new trait!) he make right decisions on when push/conserve, but you can force him to use a engine/tyre mode if he is short in fuel or are ruining tyres...

[kingarthur772]

Yes it is, because then you don´t need a manager game. And that little Settings you have to make are the Minimums a real team had to make on a race car.

If you playing an Manager Title which is culture or the new F1 2017 there are much more settings to make.

And that settings you have to make in MM are so easy to get a good or peferct setup for your drivers. You only have to orentate on the Smilys, that´s all.

[Hikyu]

Originally posted by kingarthur772:

Yes it is, because then you don´t need a manager game. And that little Settings you have to make are the Minimums a real team had to make on a race car.

If you playing an Manager Title which is culture or the new F1 2017 there are much more settings to make.

And that settings you have to make in MM are so easy to get a good or peferct setup for your drivers. You only have to orentate on the Smilys, that´s all.

I think the question, as I intend, is not on setup (that MUST be manual, IMO) but on the micro-managing during race. Perhaps a little optional automation on tyre/engine mode like AI, can be useful, specially during battle with another driver, and, if possible, bound with traits and/or driver characteristics

[hbkmog]

Originally posted by El Bearsidente:

Originally posted by hbkmog:

Yeah I agree. Driving style in real life largely depends on the drivers themselves. Good drivers should know when to attack and back off. As a racing strategist, you only give instruction when there's obvious opportunity or warning, eg. mismanagement of tire and fuel by the drivers, pit stop timing, etc. It's not about being lazy, it's just immersion breaking.

I think a better analogy is if you think about Football Manager, you design tactics and give general instructions to the pitch but you never ever tell the player when to tackle, pass or shoot. It's grand strategy, not micro management.

I know there are people who likes managing that but I think it doesn't hurt to have this as an toggle option for people who don't like it.

In theory, yes.

In reality, however, the driver on the track doesn't have the same info as his pit boss and strategist. The strategy, when the push, when to ease, is done in the pit.

Listen to pit radios, it's always like that.

Except in Force India, thei drivers ram each other out of the race for some reason.

No in reality, you don't get to tell driver when to push or back off every single lap. In fact, since you mentioned reality, there are drivers telling the team to stop bothering them. Team gives driver grand strategy but not micro manage.Pit radios wasn't introduced into F1 until 1980s so it's not always been like this. And when young drivers start at their carting days, they don't get team radio there. Knowing how to drive, when to use to what tactics is the inherent talent of a driver which differentiates good and bad drivers.

So no, in reality, it's not like what you said.

[Professor Von-Wulfen ]

Extra options can only improve a game for the players.
I like the idea of an option to manage the actual drivers less.
If you don't like the option just don't use it. Its presence is just an option.

[kingarthur772]

Thanks Baron Von-Wulfen I coulnd´t say it better.

In Game the drivers ask you what to do like if they have to much fuel (Hammer Time for Lewis as example), if they are behind a driver and don´t get overtake in the mode they driving now etcpp.

For that the options are there and for other situations. If you wanna lose every race and kicked from the Teams (Game Over) don´t use it.

If you wanna making points or winning races you have to use it. Then you won´t kicked out.

More then easy explained from Baron Von-Wulfen and myself.

[Orangehat44]

I think you guys are taking this alittle far compared to how the game is actually 'simulating' those modes/ styles. a few guides in the steam guides try to break down how the simulation works. if you look at this one it really simplifies and shows the tradeoffs per driver strategy.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=872854237

Perhaps an experienced modder who has dug into the files to see the actual nuts and bolts can extrapolate on this. But i don't think the simulation is as in depth as you think and thus requiring crazy micromanaging. this is not a racing simulator to simulate in depth car dynamics. Honestly i think if it actually simulated the differences of your strategy vs place on track (ie over take in a turn vs over take on a straight) it would really have much higher computer requirements, as that would be crazy amounts of calculations to take all that into consideration for 20 cars at 3x speed or whatever the time accl is.

I believe they've fleshed it out alittle more in updated patches (that guide is last updated before 1.2 i think) and i believe clean air is taken into account now. but far as i know engine mode equals approximated faster time per lap at an increased fuel consumption (ie one lap of over take uses 1.4 laps worth of fuel for a -2 sec improvement) and thus one lap of over take on the full time is going to be faster than one lap where you micromanage over take on and off every straight/turn.

though i will use the disclaimer that given the ai change stratagem there may be something to it. tho it may more be related to crashes/lockups where i believe it takes driver relevant skill (braking, smoothness adaptability and focus) vs what mode you are in to probably calculate chances of a lockup or crash.

That all said i havent played the new patch much waiting for the beta patches to flush out before i start a new team. but as far as i remember the AI didnt change stratagies like crazy. tpycally most teams would go red/red (driver/engin strat) for the first couple of laps then settle in to more normal/normal strats and adjust as their tires work and such. you will notices the ai will go down to low /low when it enters the pit lane or a SC is out and sure it would be nice if your diver automatically went low low on entering pit lane then back to something else when exiting. but other than that i havent seen this vast amount of AI micromanaging happening nor the need to do it your self once youve read and understand how the race simulation actually plays out.

[ShadowAngel]

Originally posted by Vince:

At the beginning, I want to raise a question that what is the role we all playing in Motorsport Manager?

I only bought the game today, so my experience is limited and obviously, i never saw how it was before the mentioned patch but i have to ask the same question.

I played a ton of racing manager games over the past 20+ years (F1 Manager '96 & Professional, Pole Position & PP 2010, Grand Prix Manager 2, EA's F1 Manager from around 2000) and in none of those games had you control the race like you do here. Instead at the most, like in F1 Manager Professional you had one slider to tell the driver how aggressively he should drive and what was that. Everything else was simply calculated based on the car and the driver's skills and mental state. He is the driver, he makes the decision.
Why do i need to control this Battery thing for example? It makes absolutely no sense and i strongly doubt that or the mentioned "Can i take over that guy in front of me" is a thing in real life at all.
The pit stop and car setup stuff is great though, i really like the level of control there.

An option (OPTION! - so all the "git gud" kids can stop whining, let those who want it have the babysitting and let those who don't can disable it) to turn it off or on would be greately appreciated.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Originally posted by Vince:

No need to judge me before you read all my comments.

I have read and all I hear is bla bla my race management isn't good enough to produce results.

Originally posted by Vince:

But any way, even a gamer who has the best micromanage skill like you, if your driver can adjust strategy like AI in every corner and every straight line, your score could still be hugely improved. If you don't trust me, you can test it.

I'm failing to see how my drivers can improve, using their micro-management any further. I already put my drivers on the podiums with frequency, in both competitive and non-competitive cars and all that, without adjusting tire/fuel every corner and straight. Hell, I don't even tell them to adjust it every lap. I simply keep track of their fuel levels, tire wear and tire temp. Then all I need to put into consideration is whether or not they have to stop again.

You're looking into the wrong direction for your lack of results. It's not the fault of the AI that can adjust any moment during a race, it's Your race-management. So stop finding excuses and improve your management instead.

If you can't improve your management, improve your car, if you can't improve your car, improve your drivers. If you can't improve any of that, improve your finances. Race results are far more reliant on things that happen outside of race-weekends than you seem to understand.

NO. YOU COMPELETLY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TALKING. When I said you let your driver took charge of micromannaging, it's not you just left the same trategy to them and watch. You need to let them change strategy like every AI drivers. But we all know that in this patch there is no option for that. So do you want to know how I found it? It's a hided option. When you keeping doing the mannual strategy change very bad for several races, your driver will send you a E-mai and said if you can left the strategy to him, if you choose yes, then from the next match, your driver will change trategy automaticly, just like Ai drives, what you need to do is dicide when to pit. This is the way you test it. Do rememer do save the game before you respond the driver's E-mail. By this you can get some comparison.

If you could really do this, you will understand me.

[Tig_green]

It's called "going rogue"-trait (or gone rogue?) and it has nothing to do with you making bad decisions. It was already explained that your drivers aren't very effective with going rogue trait. And it's not an option we can choose, not really, it appears more or less randomly and as far as I know it's just a temporary trait. But sure it shows game code allows automatic engine and driving mode selection for drivers, if that was what you were arguing here. Anyway, I think there is a language barrier here because you clearly didn't understand what Inardesco were saying.

[Tig_green]

I would suggest something like this as I'm also against brainless drivers system:

Five orders available (something similar as the old racing management games from 90s:

Fuel saving: lowest engine mode, driver will try to maintain optimal tyre temps. Good if your fuel is very critical but your parts are still ok.

Back off: driver would use low modes as far as tyre temps don't drop too low in which case he/she would go for a higher driving mode for awhile. Second lowest engine mode. Good if you need to save fuel, tires and car parts.

Keep the pace: Driver would try to maintain tyre temps as they are and not to burn any extra fuel. Yellow/Yellow mode combination being the most common when giving this order.

Push: Something like "hammer time" irl I guess. Most common mode combination being orange/orange. Driver would back off for awhile if tyres gets overheated or if fuel gets critical (not sure how much). Not available if part(s) are too critical (lets say under 10%).

Do or die/risk it all: Red/Red mode. Wears parts quickly, increases fuel burn significantly, increases risk for driver errors (also crash). Not available when parts are critical or when fuel is negative. Driver would back off to yellow driving mode when tires are overheating.

So you would still see what modes are in use but now drivers would have more to say what to use based on the orders you give them.

There could be an option before you start a career if you want full control of your drivers driving or if you want to be just a manager and use the system I described above.

What do you guys think? I know it's not perfect but you get the idea, improve the system if you have a better idea :)