The final boss is terrible

[Eljin Grey]

Great game overall even though after LV14 or so the dungeon cannot hold its difficulty consistently (both combat and puzzle), but that's quite okay because it's "rewarding", meaning players can feel the growth for the party (and our eyes/brains) for the last quarter of the game.

HOWEVER what happened to the final boss? It's an actual "boss", not a symbolic one since there are only mobs and not-very-powerful elites on LV20. Yet...

1.
We got level-drained for no lore-friendly reason. The party's experience and life-force were not sucked by the boss nor used to power up some machine (at least I saw none explained). And the final NPC even said (lied?) about setting everything to make the party stronger...for what? only to return it to level 5 with the best gears? He could just give the stuff to the party earlier, couldn't he? Besides, it's definitely NOT rewarding for any RPG to take back the wonderful skills and talents only at the final battle, as if the progress and the party builds meant nothing after all.

2.
Maybe a personal opinion: the mechanism of the very last battle is quite disappointing compared to the rest of the game. It's difficult only because in a grid-based, real-time (even with pause) game it's "cumbersome" to check AND memorize the origin and order of the speedy dark bolts. In other words it's not a "battle" at all but a "listen-look-turnaround" drill. In a game full of well-designed combats and puzzled this encounter betrays all my expectations, and it is the very last one.

3.
Story may not be crucial for a dungeon crawler but still it could be complete (or with a "sense" of completion). This ending answers no mysteries and brings no satisfaction. (And funny thing it is: a mouse click cuts the staff roll once and for all as if the dev just want it to end. /Sigh)

To me, this last bit almost ruined the game (especially when I recalled how much fun the last parts of Grimrock 1&2 were). But once again, excellent game for the rest 99%.

[ManuTOO]

Hello,

1) The draining of your Party happens to power up the lightnings that "kill" the Boss, else he regenerates all his life.
So without all the leveling up, the Party couldn't kill the Boss. (maybe I should have made the Level-1 Party members die when standing several times in the electric field on Phase 3, it would have been clearer :) )

2) The curse bolts are sent counter-clockwise from the west & east walls, so it shouldn't be too difficult to remember the order once you have noticed them spawning once per demon mouth.
Have you played the game in a challenging difficulty level ? When I tested it (in a difficulty level similar to the current Strategist level), the whole last phase was pretty intense.

3) Some people may not know about the Escape key, so I thought clicking out of the rolling Credits would be user friendly.

Ending tells the end of the story of the Young Emperor and the meaning of everything that happened so far. I agree it's far from being the best story ever, but there's a little something there... :)

4) Why losing levels..?
a) I'd like to do a sequel, and I'd like to offer the possibility to import your Party from DG1 at beginning of DG2. It was out of question to start DG2 at Level 20, so I had to find a reason to lose the levels.

b) When I played World of Warcraft, I wished I could go back to my character & his gear when he had reached the levels 10, 20, 30, etc., to remember how it was to play at these levels. So I thought it could be nice to remember & relive your progression, but inverted, for the final Boss in DG.

c) I thought it was a pretty original mechanism (I never saw that in any other game) and was kinda epic : you kill yourself little by little even if you're not sure of the result. It's hard to do something more heroic. (plus it matches well the deep theme of the game, although no one on this planet might figure it out )

PS: I'm glad you enjoyed the other 99%..!

[mayonnaise on an escalator]

Just wanted to say that I, on the other hand, found the deleveling mechanic to be the most interesting and unique part of the whole game, lol.

Final boss lore spoilers:
So the final boss *is* the dungeon, in a way. He says he laid out the dungeon so that you'd actually have a chance at defeating him. Using your dungeon experience as a currency to actually damage the dungeon itself is a great idea.

And the way it was handled was fantastic - actually remembering how my characters were skilled out at level 15/10/5 was a great idea. I was so confused when I got into the 2nd fight and suddenly my Arcanist was back to being an Elementalist!

Very unique, very neat idea, and done well. I wasn't a huge fan of the final boss fight itself (a final boss that mainly punches you to death is a bit anticlimactic), but I loved the deleveling mechanic.

[Tyler Durden]

Losing all the levels was the thing j disliked the most, too. It was great getting to be powerful, then felt like a punch in the face to have it all stolen right back in a moment's notice. There are other ways to have the characters lose power, say they had three or four years off where they became lax on their training, or so on. I did enjoy the game immensely, but that mechanic and the rushed unsatisfying ending were my gripes.

[ManuTOO]

@Tyler Durden,
yes, there are many ways to lower the character levels, but I preferred one implicated in the gameplay rather than happening afterward (plus in this case, DG2 would begin a few days after the end of DG1).

[Franky]

On a related note, I greatly loved the banter when your party is ditching their awesome gear at the end. I remember my arcanist being all like "Wha? Gotta throw away my rings too? BS!!!!!".

Looking forward to carry on the story with the same party if there's a sequel.

[Sumthinwitty]

Yeah I unfortunately have to agree with the OP. I'm absolutely enthralled by this game, one of my absolute favorite dungeon crawlers/rpg's. I couldn't stand the end boss fight though. You have your badass crew, hard fought to become such, and the end boss is a puzzle instead of a fight. I feel like you barely get to hold onto your end game skills for more than a little while, hardly enough time to enjoy them.

That being said, I still believe the end boss is the only downside to this game, because ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I love it.

[ManuTOO]

@charontis101,

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the final Boss. If you'd still recommend the game, and have the time & the mood, it'd be nice to leave a positive review in its Steam store page..! :-)

Actually, I think the Boss 19 feels more like a classic final Boss : a very powerful spell to avoid, plus a lot of side enemies, and special spell fields.

And as we don't get any noticeable new power at Level 20, and still get the 1st Final Boss Phase fully leveled up, I thought it'd be enough to enjoy our max power... :)

[Aria Athena]

I remember barely being able to beat the last phase by using all the crit pots, because he was healing too much. I believe his self heal was nerfed.

Originally posted by ManuTOO:

yes, there are many ways to lower the character levels, but I preferred one implicated in the gameplay rather than happening afterward (plus in this case, DG2 would begin a few days after the end of DG1).

Is that a confirmation for DG2? I vaguely remember you saying that you were considering it if your next game (something about tennis?) did well.

[ManuTOO]

@Aria Athena,
it's still more or less the same : if my new tennis games tank, I'm not sure what I'll do... >_<
If they do correctly, I should be able to work on DG2, but I'm likely still 2 years away to start to work on it. I'm currently just finishing the 1st tennis game out of the 2.

The difference from my 1st statement about the situation a couple of years ago is that now DG1 paid for itself, even if it's not great, so the little money it earns me now enter in the "full profit" box, and thus I have to earn a bit less money on my tennis games... :-)

[Aria Athena]

Well, good luck then. I hope I get to play through 120h in the hardest difficulty of DG2 too.

[ManuTOO]

@Aria Athena,
I forgot to confirm you I had capped the Final Boss self-healing to Strategist (ie: 1 level below the max), so now it doesn't require to have 40 Haste & Crit potions to kill him in Crusader.

I also added the Hell difficulty, for the people who finished Crusader without using all their potions... ;-)

[Aria Athena]

On the hardest difficulties it's a rule to not use all the pots because you never know when you'll need them.

Hell difficulty, damn. Crusader really pushed it to the limit at some points.

[ManuTOO]

Yes, it's true, that's why I tried to make the potions really needed... :)

The Hell difficulty is "just" a boost of 4% base damage over the Crusader difficulty. I think it should be enough to use most of the potions, but it'll have some choke points in the 1st levels, especially the Dragon at Level 4, and still possibly the Arena at Level 7, and most of the Elites till the Level 5 or 6.

It might be doable only with a few party setups, so the Paladin as an off-tank might be mandatory.

[Aria Athena]

I can't say I'm willing to test that theory, I've paid my dues. I found the game to be very well balanced when min/maxing on the Crusader difficulty, but that 4% will probably break said balance. Classes like Necromancer, who take a while to shine, will struggle more.

In general, if pots are limited, I prefer it when there is a way to beat an encounter on any difficulty without one, so there is no danger of hitting an actual wall after many hour of gameplay just because some previous encounters went badly.

[ManuTOO]

Yes, it's not a difficulty meant for a 1st run : I didn't put it on the difficulty screen when starting a new game.

It's meant for people who have finished the game and really want to try to see what is the maximum achievable, are ok to be forced to avoid some specs & respec during the run (eg: start with Druid than swap to Necro), and can plan ahead for the use of the limited resources (ie: the potions).