Are people just dumb?

[Jack Kenseng]

I've read dozens of terrible and biased negative reviews for this game, but one of the things that stand out that I've read several times is the phrase "clicking is useless".

My click damage can easily reach 1/4 of my total DPS per second and I can click far more than 4 times per second, and that is without the Sniper talent. So what part of that is useless precisely?

Also, WTF is this "idle DPS boost" I've also read about a dozen times in this negative reviews? What idle DPS boost?

-.-;

[B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t]

Click damage is really only used at the begining of the game and late deep runs when you have click damage and items that helps it. I never use click untill I hit level 1000+ now and on some free plays that I can only reach 900.

[Jack Kenseng]

I'm typically resetting before 400 still, but even at that point it's certainly not useless...and not useless to have Bush Wacker or Robo Turkey in the formation since even they will boost my dps thanks to critical click chance boosting dps and Wind Up Bunny. Just gets very annoying to keep seeing the waves of negative reviews who want to compare this game to The Witcher (yes that happened).

[B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t]

I never go by reviews as most of them are always stupid. I have 8k and mine is "It's ok." I did that only for the lulz until I really make a reviews as I have almost 100% good things to say about this game, there are some things that need to be fixed and worked on but for the most part def my favorite clicker/idle game on Steam.

[sfnhltb]

Nowadays I normally do somewhere between 150-300x as much damage with a single click compared to my passive dps, when Bush Whacker is in the formation anyway. For example:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=925043255

[muljostpho]

Some clicker/idle games lean heavier on the "clicker" side of the design and some lean heavier on the "idle" side of the design. It's just variation within the genre. And it's personal preference just how positive or a negative someone considers that to be.

Originally posted by aidynmaster:

Also, WTF is this "idle DPS boost" I've also read about a dozen times in this negative reviews? What idle DPS boost?

I haven't looked at the reviews so I can't be entirely sure of the context of the comments you're referring to (are they calling it a good or a bad thing?), but I'd guess that they're referring to the mechanic that shows up in a number of other clicker/idle games where a buff will be active any time you haven't made any click damage (buying levels and using abilities don't interfere with this, only actually clicking on the enemy) within the last 60 seconds. A lot of other games do this.

CotLI doesn't have anything like that. But if it did... The ability would most likely be a power of a specific crusader (a new character intended by design to be an "anti-clicker") instead of being built into the core mechanics of the game. It would kind of be like a reverse of RoboRabbit's Wind-Up Bunny buff, really. Where the Wind-Up Bunny buff starts at 0 and builds up to a maximum effectiveness after 25 clicks and persists for 15 minutes after the last click (refreshing the duration if you click again)... An idle booster type of buff would have to start out at the maximum boost (whether it's boosting global DPS directly or just boosting crit chance and letting the Passive Criticals talent translate that into a global DPS boost) and lose effectiveness temporarily when you click.

Because that's CotLI's design concept. It's not just a single never-changing list of 20 characters that rarely contribute anything more than a share of the group's DPS output while one enemy at a time appears for the team to fight like so many others in the genre. We have to pick and choose who is on the team. We can unlock alternative options for each of the 20+ positions in the roster. Each different character can bring their own quirks to the team. We place them in a formation and their position within the formation can make a difference. And they must fend off waves of multiple attackers at the same time.

Granted, when running free plays (which become the bulk of the gameplay since they're the repeatable content / objectives are not repeatable) most players will typically just select one DPSer and surround them with characters that will buff that DPSer and run until that DPS stops instakilling the enemies (plus using the Billy + Mindy + Baen combo for making it a speedrun). Objectives can challenge us to need to make use of other types of crusader abilities, but those opportunities are limited.

That's the legitimate failing in CotLI's design. We've got options for tanking and healing. We've got options that slow enemy movement. We've got options that fire projectiles or deal splash damage. We've got options that buff based on enemies on-screen or when the formation stops moving. We've got options that react with buffs or counterattacks when an ally dies. We've got a clicker option that can go for raw power (Bush Whacker with his Swordplay ability) or a clicker option that can work as more of a supplement to the rest of the team (Warwick with the combo of his Soul Harvest and Curse of Weakness abilities). But they have their place and for some of those it's often not in a free play (unless that's just the player's random whim).

In my opinion, the game kind of needs a "challenge mode" option added to free plays (with customizable objective rules and with prizes that scale based on how tough you make it and how far you can go into your custom challenge). Something in the repeatable portion of the game to encourage getting into situations where it pays off to experiment with different crusader abilities.

[Jack Kenseng]

Well said.

[Alex]

Well if you speak about challenge mode then i will speak about rubies. Mere 300 rubies for getting to area 900? Seriously? And the same amount of rubies to get to area 600. It should be every 100 rubies for 100 areas.

[Jack Kenseng]

That idle DPS boost...that's what I mean, there is no idle DPS boost what so ever but several of these garbage reviews think there is one in CotLI.

[sfnhltb]

Originally posted by muljostpho:

...

That's the legitimate failing in CotLI's design. We've got options for tanking and healing. We've got options that slow enemy movement. We've got options that fire projectiles or deal splash damage. We've got options that buff based on enemies on-screen or when the formation stops moving. We've got options that react with buffs or counterattacks when an ally dies. We've got a clicker option that can go for raw power (Bush Whacker with his Swordplay ability) or a clicker option that can work as more of a supplement to the rest of the team (Warwick with the combo of his Soul Harvest and Curse of Weakness abilities). But they have their place and for some of those it's often not in a free play (unless that's just the player's random whim).

In my opinion, the game kind of needs a "challenge mode" option added to free plays (with customizable objective rules and with prizes that scale based on how tough you make it and how far you can go into your custom challenge). Something in the repeatable portion of the game to encourage getting into situations where it pays off to experiment with different crusader abilities.

Nice idea, although I think it would have to be random rules when you go into a challenge (although maybe you could choose the number of extra challenge rules to add), otherwise it would mostly lead to doing exactly the same challenge rules over and over once an ideal combination was found.

I guess the difficulty would be lifting out a load of random objective rules and them being able to coexist together without causing conflicts or bugs as the number of combinations grows massively compared to the limited amount of combinations in the existing objectives.

[muljostpho]

I think I mentioned the idea with a little more detail in another post somewhere. I had been thinking of it as being restricted within the ruleset covered by the campaign objectives, and only allowing a rule to be mixed into a free play after an objective with that rule had been completed before (same goes for upper tier variants of rules). So the challenge mode for World's Wake would only pull conditions from World's Wake objectives. Descent Into Darkness only from Descent Into Darkness. And so on.

I was not thinking of it as a complete free-for-all of every option in the entire game all in one place. (Although that could be another idea. A separate option outside of the campaigns. Maybe something like a gladitorial arena setting / story. Flexible formation, letting us choose from any formation in the game. Including even the event formations. Pile other conditions on top of that.)

Anyway, for what I was thinking, for World's Wake as an example this would get options for the Rampaging Rabbits in the back row, the Priests of Antioch in the corners, the Trojan Rabbit in the center, and the Gray Goo overtaking the entire thing. In theory the Trojan Rabbit could coexist with either the Rampaging Rabbits or the Priests of Antioch, but outside of that it's all clashes (RR and PoA both try to claim the corners, GG will sooner or later try to claim everything that any of the others cover). A drop-down box to select your formation condition(s) for a challenge would include those six valid possibilities (each of the four main options alone, or the RR+TR combo, or the PoA+TR combo).

Another drop-down box would be the destination, maybe? Just the target area to reach. And another box might be for other miscellaneous options? For World's Wake that would be... Inflation and Top Tier (plus maybe the combination of them as another option?) Although it could be argued that Inflation might override the destination selection. (Your end target there is leveling up Nate (or whoever else in that seat) enough to be capable of resetting. Reaching a specific area may be too much to ask for.)

But yeah... I could also see them leaving the actual decisions up to RNG like you suggest. Maybe give options to define upper limits in terms of maximum number of conditions and maximum tier to pull conditions from. Account for what should and should not be allowed to combine together within the algorithm that gets written for each different campaign challenge. But that would all be hidden from us. They'd just show us the final result.

[Alex]

Thats free play for a reason

[DanaO]

It's possible some of the reviewers just didn't get out of a position where clicking wasn't "useless" - there are plenty of clicker games out there where click damage mechanics are either entirely separate from dps mechanics or the former is automatically tied to the latter, and if it doesn't occur to you to either try out power siphon buffs or put the Bush Whacker near anybody with decent dps... and the situations where clicking happens to make up the majority of your damage don't come up much in the early metagame. I'm not sure it's so much stupid reviewers as reviewers trying out a couple dozen games of the (admittedly normally very derivative) genre with the expectation they'll all be nearly identical and focusing on whatever differences happen to be instantly obvious to them.

[Jack Kenseng]

I'm now clicking for slightly under half of my DPS now without any buffs, and only a rare equipment on The Bush Wacker.

-.-;