All main characters in borderlands 3 are women

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

Lillith, Maya, Ava and Tannis. So where is the gender equality for men? I mean if you play as zane you not part of the main group because your character has no development or screentime in cutscenes. I hope borderlands 4 has both men and women in it as important characters.

[vee-kay]

Publicado originalmente por Saul:

Lillith, Maya, Ava and Tannis. So where is the gender equality for men? I mean if you play as zane you not part of the main group because your character has no development or screentime in cutscenes. I hope borderlands 4 has both men and women in it as important characters.

It's good. Let games focus more on women than men. Gaming world need more female gamers. And female game characters are cuter and funnier anyway.

[Mez Koo]

Publicado originalmente por vee-kay:

It's good. Let games focus more on women than men. Gaming world need more female gamers. And female game characters are cuter and funnier anyway. :happy_yeti:

I'd rather them focus on good characters that fit the story rather than trying to check off boxes or social quotas. BL4 can be entirely female cast for all I care and it might as well be if they want to finally tell the whole Siren story but I want them to be good characters with good writing and not just there to be female.

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

Shinjitzso

[kukuhimanpr]

axton would have been a good main male character replacement for roland... probably become lilith's 2nd in command in which he'd offer funny moments and somewhat emotional heartfelt moments to the gang due to axton's protectiveness for his squad friends and his heartbreaking divorce from sarah his ex-fiance-dahlcommander. axton could have become a good anchor for a main story arc to reconnect him with sarah and ask for dahl's help against cov+maliwan... the fact that he deserted dahl and would be executed immediately by dahl if he returns to them would just add another spice to the story.

and salvador... salvador could have been another brick-like renegados-leader that protect pandoran people (not including the banditos) for his name is salvador! the savior of pandoran people!... heck, salvador is probably the most broken op b2 vault hunter with many players exploiting his skills with grog and lifesteal stuff...

we haven't even include krieg... krieg's strong connection to maya and his potentially heartbreaking destructive berserk reactions to maya's death could have elevate him into a very important figure in b3 main story considering his role as a 'good' psycho...

but no... but b3 writers throw away axton for a forgettable mini-game dlc... because he and salvador were having mid life economy crisis when they would've become filthy rich and famous after killing handsome jack... and krieg's connection to maya was considered unimportant to b3 main story, leaving him to waste away in the wasteland to contain his psycho persona until his death... until borderlands fans cry loud enough to force b3 devs to make krieg focused dlc... but it feels weak!!! weak I tell you!!! krieg in krieg dlc is just a depressed krieg who eventually just want to forget the past... and krieg almost totally missing in b3 main story and not being given the chance to react immediately to maya's death was totally stupid!!!... lilith got her chance to react on the spot when jack instakill roland out of nowhere... why can't they do the same to krieg and maya???

finally, you can say that b3 devs placed more importance on women characters. thats indisputable. but even then, they can't do justice on some important women characters... for example... gaige not being included in b3 main story where apparently holloway seems to sell her DT floating torso robot design to maliwan and many others is just even more insult to injury... heck, the only character who says anything related to gaige in b3 main story is just holloway himself!!! (in a secret lore echo recorder tape...) b3 devs tried to fix this by including gaige in a big dlc like krieg, but even then, they gimped her too much in that dlc to become a lovesick simp for hammerlock (who doesn't pay much attention to gaige ever) and got her mechro+vault hunter skills so nerfed and becoming less and less important to overall borderlands story, she might as well just go incognito forever being hunted by holloway's mafia empire.

b3 writers ruined too much of the good stuff from classic borderlands games... if you're a fan of classic b1-b2-b1.5-tftb characters, you would feel the EMPTINESS when you watch b3's story.

[Profile]

if you slice up the screen time and radio time we spend with characters in BL3, i think you'll find it's fairly even between male and female characters, but the most important and climactic scenes are way more populated with female characters, that's definitely true

but it's not mindless female empowerment for the sake of it, it actually makes sense in BL3 since the plot revolves around Sirens

[kukuhimanpr]

the problem isn't about equating the role of between genders in borderlandsverse. you'd get endless headaches thinking about that stuff that would dive too much into skubtastic real life issues.

its about making sure the characters are written well enough according to their quirks and flaws, and their importance in the overall plot of borderlands be relevant and entertaining enough for the fans. how some of the famous classic borderlands characters be rendered irrelevant and pushed to obscurity due to their unimportance and unexciting writing in b3 (and post-b3) main storyline is a serious problem that can't be fix unless b3 story is overhauled entirely to fix the glaringly irritating retcons and plotholes.

[Icedfate]

the Rick Sanchez parody lookalike in this game is a woman. just tossing that one in here.

[Profile]

Publicado originalmente por kukuhimanpr:

the problem isn't about equating the role of between genders in borderlandsverse. you'd get endless headaches thinking about that stuff that would dive too much into skubtastic real life issues.

its about making sure the characters are written well enough according to their quirks and flaws, and their importance in the overall plot of borderlands be relevant and entertaining enough for the fans. how some of the famous classic borderlands characters be rendered irrelevant and pushed to obscurity due to their unimportance and unexciting writing in b3 (and post-b3) main storyline is a serious problem that can't be fix unless b3 story is overhauled entirely to fix the glaringly irritating retcons and plotholes.

one issue i've noticed is that each game introduces AT LEAST 4 new vault hunters, and the Tales games introduce AT LEAST 4 new characters (EDIT: and those are just the playable characters, so there are way more characters introduced than just them per game) which means way too many characters to juggle in subsequent games without making most of them paper thin, getting barely any attention, or being ignored altogether

and so they've tried to manage that by killing off a bunch of them, which upsets fans if they're favorite characters get killed, there's really no win/win path for them imo

imagine the nightmare BL4 writers have to deal with due to all the characters they have to weave into the story, whilst also introducing a whole new cast of vault hunters and NPC

[kukuhimanpr]

killing/banishing returning characters from previous iterations from the story is fine, as long as their deaths or prolonged banishments from the story is written well enough to make fans feel bittersweet but accept their departures.

i guess the reason why some fans felt like b3 main characters were all women are because the leading men candidates in this one weren't as impactful/entertaining as the male leads in b2-b1.5-tftb. long ago before b3 was announced, i was really expecting axton, salvador and krieg to have more important presences in b3. because look at the pattern from b1-b2, where the old 4 b1 characters become badass and important figures in b2 story!!! but those 3 were kicked out of b3 main story with such carelessness (or maybe even some bias against them) by b3 writers. those 3 were good candidates for amusing and important male characters in b3, but no. their potential was wasted and thrown away without much thoughts by b3 writers.

its like if avengers endgame or something only had 1/2 of the heroes present in the fight against purple baldnoss. the missing half didn't join the fight because they're too busy tackling their midlife economy crisis or going to some endless pilgrim journey to whatever dimensions for self healing.

[vee-kay]

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Publicado originalmente por vee-kay:

It's good. Let games focus more on women than men. Gaming world need more female gamers. And female game characters are cuter and funnier anyway.

I'd rather them focus on good characters that fit the story rather than trying to check off boxes or social quotas. BL4 can be entirely female cast for all I care and it might as well be if they want to finally tell the whole Siren story but I want them to be good characters with good writing and not just there to be female.

BL1, BL2 and Prequel (and now BL3) got their fair share of criticism too, for treating their women like objects or fools or tools, while only the men are shown as true leaders ( as "man with a plan"). I think only BL2 and Tales from Borderlands have been praised for their story - BL2 had aliens, Angel and Handsome Jack forming a trifecta of 3 storylines converging to interesting (and poignant) climaxes, while Tales is expectedly praiseworthy for its storytelling simply because its maker is Telltale Games who is famous for its games which tend to be story-focused character-driven empathetic rich-narrative games.

INTENSE SPOILERS AHEAD: You've been warned!


* Angel was exploited and tortured to death by her own dear "father" Handsome Jack,
* Mad Moxxie was not mad but over-sexified as an amorous glamorous bimbo, but she body-shames her own daughter Ellie forcing her to abandon Sanctuary and retreat to Dust (and then Ellie fails to protect Scooter despite being his sister, and she simply becomes the (careless) caretaker of hos Catch-A-System as per his last wishes),
* Tiny Tina was shown like a bomb-happy "things go kaboom" crazy little ♥♥♥♥♥♥ (though she has amazing control over gameworlds as a dungeon master),
* Patricia Tannis is still a clueless absent-minded researcher/archeologist obsessed with Eridian artifacts (though she aggravatingly tends to misplace her ECHO logs about her research, forcing the player to hunt for them in obscure locations) who's so introverted and isolated (sadly ignored and forgotten by her "friends"/collegues) that she even falls in love with a "ceiling chair" (a fault that Handsome Jack cunningly exploits to torture her) despite becoming a reluctant secretive Siren (she inherits the Siren powers after Angel's death),
* Athena was a renegade assassin, Nisha Kadam (Jack's girlfriend) was killed off by the players themselves, Fiona and Sasha were con artists,
* Gaige is sidelined and becomes a lovesick puppy, Lilith the powerful siren is a failure as a leader (unlike her predecessor Roland) as she's assaulted with ease by the villainous Calypso Twins Tyreen & Troy where Tyreen takes her powers(!!) and then Lilith stupidly decides to give the fate of Pandora and Crimson Raiders to the untested new vault hunters (the players),
* Ava is a bumbling fool who gets taken hostage by Tyreen, and even Maya is killed off as a consequence (because Lilith and her ragtag team failed to anticipate that Troy could do the same trick as Tyreen - leech off a Siren's powers to the extent of even killing the victim by disintegration; Lilith is the one who had sent Maya and Ava into harm's way without warning them about Tyreen and Tyro's capabilities) leaving Ava disgruntled and overwhelmed abandonment and grief.
* Aurelia has become a full-fledged villain, despite her arc in TPS and being recruited into the Crimson Raiders.
TLDR: None of the female characters in Borderlands series have a good arc (except Angel) or a happy ending.

[Profile]

Publicado originalmente por kukuhimanpr:

killing/banishing returning characters from previous iterations from the story is fine, as long as their deaths or prolonged banishments from the story is written well enough to make fans feel bittersweet but accept their departures.

i guess the reason why some fans felt like b3 main characters were women are because the badass leading men candidate in this one weren't as impactful/entertaining as the male leads in b2-b1.5-tftb. long ago before b3 was announced, i was really expecting axton, salvador and krieg to have more important presences in b3. because look at the pattern from b1-b2, where the old 4 b1 characters become badass and important figures in b2 story!!! but those 3 were kicked out of b3 main story with such carelessness (or maybe even some bias against them) by b3 writers. those 3 were good candidates for amusing and important male characters in b3, but no. their potential was wasted and thrown away without much thoughts by b3 writers.

its like if avengers endgame or something only had 1/2 of the heroes present in the fight against purple baldnoss. the missing half didn't join the fight because they're too busy tackling their midlife economy crisis or going to some endless pilgrim journey to whatever dimensions for self healing.

what you expected and hoped for would have been cool, but imo all the female power in BL3 was justified because the story was about Sirens, and there was that whole thing about Sirens being drawn to each other, so it made sense that all the Sirens crowded together on Sanctuary 3, and in the scenes involving Tyreen, fighting fire with fire makes sense right?

regarding character deaths, yeah, some were good, but some were written horribly, i have to agree there

[Profile]

this might be slightly off topic, but it relates to gender in BL3... it actually isn't controversial at all that fl4k is non-binary

think about it, it would be weirder for an android to claim to be male or female, non-binary is the more logical category for androids

for example, imagine if an android claimed to be female, and you asked it "what is a female?"

see what i mean? assigning androids gender is something we've done for a long time, but it's pretty odd if you think about it

like c3po from star wars, we always refer to c3po using male pronouns, but how is he at all male?

edit: i just watched a scene from a new hope, and c3po refers to r2d2 using male pronouns... man, that's bizarre now that i think about it

i mean, ACTUALLY think about that, it means r2d2 identifies as male... wth? he literally has no reproductive organs, nothing that can even be judged on a masculine ~ feminine spectrum, and yet, identifies as male... what on earth???

[Icedfate]

maybe i haven't gotten far enough, but this one seems to have a less focused main "story" than BL2. aside from that there's some cult of psychos and some psycho chick who is an obvious parody to youtube and twitch streamers wanting some map. . and then lilith is there who was some awesome legendary character and yet somehow, she just can't even hold her own against this ♥♥♥♥♥ and the B even comments on that like "i thought you were supposed to be some legendary siren or some ♥♥♥♥!" and then lilith gets her powers stolen and then i guess now my mission is to track down and beat this villain and that's the main story?

so, if you ignore the main story, the playable characters have equal representation of genders.
if the game really wanted to be "woke", it would have a man, a woman, a trans and an NB as playables.

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

Can I get some awards for starting the discussion. Much appreciated.

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

Publicado originalmente por Icedfate:

Publicado originalmente por Saul:

Dude chill I am only talking about this game.

if you want to cry about equality, you have to cry about it equally.
and yeah, you're assuming my gender.
now you're gonna rail on about the woke agenda and their nefarious plan to groom all the children next, right?

Ok girl chill. It's just my observation.