The Consumer goods factor is too high after MEFO Bills repayment

[KrachBummEumel]

I played as Germany with the new Götterdämmerung dlc. In the End of 1937, i decided to pay MEFO bills back. This increased the amount of needed consumer goods for nearly 100 days by 40%. On the other hand, I decided to make political decisions decreasing the number of needed consumer goods of the 'Recovering Economy' attribute (The decisions, that were unlocked by the price regulation focus). During that, I checked the consumer goods factor, that the recovering economy trait gives. It was down to -35% while I was repaying MEFO bills. So combined I had an total increase by 5% (-35% + 40% MEFO bills repayment) and the number of available construction factories was fine. When the MEFO bills repayment was finished, the MEFO bills repayment increase of 40% was taken away, but the recovering economy trait suddenly had an consumer goods factor of +30% (65% more than before). This means, that my total consumer goods factor was increased from 5% to 30% and the number of available factories was reduced by round about 10. I ran the game for some ingame weeks, but nothing changed. The bad aspects of the price regulating decisions haven't been set back, but the reduced need for consumer goods haven't worked anymore. I also haven't seen any notice, that the consumer goods need by these decisions is just decreased for a limited time. Furthermore I do not find another focus or decision, to decrease the consumer goods need again.

I don't think, that this setback of the needed consumer goods of the 'Recovering economy' trait is desired by the game developers, because I can't see a reason for that setback and the number of availbale consumer factories becomes quite low. That will hamper germanys build up and will lead to a serious disadvantage during the war.

Dear Paradox team, check this please, so that nobody plays the whole germany campaign with a crucial disadvantage. Thanks!

[Delicia Suprema]

Originally posted by KrachBummEumel:

I played as Germany with the new Götterdämmerung dlc. In the End of 1937, i decided to pay MEFO bills back. This increased the amount of needed consumer goods for nearly 100 days by 40%. On the other hand, I decided to make political decisions decreasing the number of needed consumer goods of the 'Recovering Economy' attribute (The decisions, that were unlocked by the price regulation focus). During that, I checked the consumer goods factor, that the recovering economy trait gives. It was down to -35% while I was repaying MEFO bills. So combined I had an total increase by 5% (-35% + 40% MEFO bills repayment) and the number of available construction factories was fine. When the MEFO bills repayment was finished, the MEFO bills repayment increase of 40% was taken away, but the recovering economy trait suddenly had an consumer goods factor of +30% (65% more than before). This means, that my total consumer goods factor was increased from 5% to 30% and the number of available factories was reduced by round about 10. I ran the game for some ingame weeks, but nothing changed. The bad aspects of the price regulating decisions haven't been set back, but the reduced need for consumer goods haven't worked anymore. I also haven't seen any notice, that the consumer goods need by these decisions is just decreased for a limited time. Furthermore I do not find another focus or decision, to decrease the consumer goods need again.

I don't think, that this setback of the needed consumer goods of the 'Recovering economy' trait is desired by the game developers, because I can't see a reason for that setback and the number of availbale consumer factories becomes quite low. That will hamper germanys build up and will lead to a serious disadvantage during the war.

Dear Paradox team, check this please, so that nobody plays the whole germany campaign with a crucial disadvantage. Thanks!

I was going to invade the soviets and then because i haven't invaded enough people mefo had ate all my civilians and i couldn't do ♥♥♥♥. Terrible new feature.

[rattus]

If you cancel the mefo on day one you will get the +40% repayment debuff for a couple of months. [the longer you have mefo the longer that +40% period lasts and the higher the PP point to cancel). When that is finished if I read the files correctly, then you get an arbitrary 75% internal mefo factor that appears to be permanent which is added in the new CIV requirements calculation, meaning (in my test) 153% of CIV needs with a base of 20% for partial mob. plus the factory build time debuffs for CIV and MIL. AFAICT since I can't find all the relevant events, your economy never recovers but if someone has a different experience I'd love to know. Only way I can see to get rid of the mefo penalty is to have a civil war and not be fascist. If I'm right, that seems a bit harsh if you cancel the mefo bills on day 1.

[Včelí medvídek]

I am still confused what nerf people talk about - recently played many German campaigns (for Eva Braun, new achieves etc) and MEFO was never issue a bit - built civs only to some early 38 as usual and never felt any shortage. Let MEFO reach 100% is still worthy as it allow you oveconstruc its needs and turn into ecnomy of conquest when war trigger - no problem.

Pay with conquered coutries gold and focus on relevant decisions - MEFO never reached 100% until very late 1940 where I was out of targets and it really did not matter at this point.

Abandoned MEFO at beginning for Recover economy branch - not any issue either, in time imho it is eeven betetr than Autarky, but both make Germany economy unrealistic strong.

Overall Germany felt pretty much same if not more powerful than always and I easily rolleld over all despite having deal with own civil wars etc., so I relaly fail to see where the issue is.

[Helium God]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

I am still confused what nerf people talk about - recently played many German campaigns (for Eva Braun, new achieves etc) and MEFO was never issue a bit - built civs only to some early 38 as usual and never felt any shortage. Let MEFO reach 100% is still worthy as it allow you oveconstruc its needs and turn into ecnomy of conquest when war trigger - no problem.

Pay with conquered coutries gold and focus on relevant decisions - MEFO never reached 100% until very late 1940 where I was out of targets and it really did not matter at this point.

Abandoned MEFO at beginning for Recover economy branch - not any issue either, in time imho it is eeven betetr than Autarky, but both make Germany economy unrealistic strong.

Overall Germany felt pretty much same if not more powerful than always and I easily rolleld over all despite having deal with own civil wars etc., so I relaly fail to see where the issue is.

These are all good points and while, in my first game, I wasn't able to break the Soviets because my economy collapsed in 1943 when I failed to keep my MEFO payments in check (I just literally couldn't build, trade, repair, reinforce, etc. lol). After that, I took the "economy of conquest" idea more seriously, have stuck more intentionally to the implied deadlines, and have had a lot more luck.

One key thing that everyone keeps leaving out of their complaints about the MEFO bills - particularly in reference to those who say that "Recover Economy" is unequivocally better - is that the Goering branch of the Inner Circle is actually fairly strong. His resource gain efficiency, reduction of penalties for lack of resources and bonuses to production are pretty awesome if you put the Reichswerke in place. If I'm doing a MEFO run, I would be mighty tempted to run down the Goering line all the way to "Integration of Puppet Economies," but at bare minimum, I'd run it to "Prioritize the Four Year Plan" (if I wanted to have Speer or Todt complete their second focus instead, for instance). This game has a lot of depth and this update actually added a lot of cool nuance like this.

TL;DR: If you did "Four-Year Plan" and didn't put Goering and his Reichswerke in place, then you didn't really follow through on the concept of the "Four-Year Plan" and it isn't really any wonder that it looks like a terrible trade-off.

[Rina Ravyn]

What people seem to not understand about the MEFO bills is this: there is no opting out, once you committed.

If you go for 4 year plan, then you MUST go the mefo bills into economy of conquest route, and you MUST NOT activate the desicion to repay the mefo bills, else youll be off worse. The Consumer goods punishment for repaying the mefo bills can only be reduced by the focusses under prioritize growth, that you cuck yourself out of, if you go 4 year plan.

But there is no changing your mind on this mid-way.

What ever you commit to, you need to commit to from game star, all the way tot he end.

If that mechanic is too hot for you: prioritize growth instead, but you wont be going to war in 1939. Thats the trade-off.

[Delicia Suprema]

Originally posted by Rina Ravyn:

What people seem to not understand about the MEFO bills is this: there is no opting out, once you committed.

If you go for 4 year plan, then you MUST go the mefo bills into economy of conquest route, and you MUST NOT activate the desicion to repay the mefo bills, else youll be off worse. The Consumer goods punishment for repaying the mefo bills can only be reduced by the focusses under prioritize growth, that you cuck yourself out of, if you go 4 year plan.

But there is no changing your mind on this mid-way.

What ever you commit to, you need to commit to from game star, all the way tot he end.

If that mechanic is too hot for you: prioritize growth instead, but you wont be going to war in 1939. Thats the trade-off.

Lol, you certainly can. The left side focus is the only real option for germany right now.

[[FvN] Var]

Originally posted by Rina Ravyn:

If that mechanic is too hot for you: prioritize growth instead, but you wont be going to war in 1939. Thats the trade-off.

True, you dont go to war in '39
Because it starts in '37

[KrachBummEumel]

Telling the ruth, I played my game further (The one I told you about in the first post of this thread), though I had the impression, that there was a lack of civil construction in early 1938 after MEFO bills had been repaid. But I underestimated the number of factories, that germany gains by integrating austria und the czechs. I was able to build all important facilities and had enough military factories in the late game.

But I still have a point about the MEFO bill system: it has a big lack of transparency. It is hard to understand all the factors involved and what they really do, to make good decisions.

[Modo]

The MEFO mechanic illustrates how deeply the German economy was broken to force it into building up for war. Effectively robbing its neighbours from 1938 onward was the only reason it did not crash completely. Even with all the stealing, Austrian and Czech gold (both from national coffers, and regular people), the situation was so bad, Germany had to institute rationing in 1939, before it even entered Poland. It had to conquer to pay for all the credit and "credit" that paid for the crazy rearmament pace. Now, imagine trying to wiggle out of that situation before you grabbed "free money" via conquest. It is supposed to be painful, and it still only vaguely suggests how that could have broken Germany without a shot being fired.

[von_bock]

Originally posted by rattus:

]If you cancel the mefo on day one you will get the +40% repayment debuff for a couple of months. (the longer you have mefo the longer that +40% period lasts and the higher the PP point to cancel). When that is finished if I read the files correctly, then you get an arbitrary 75% internal mefo factor that appears to be permanent

Jesus Christ. They really really don't know a thing about game design.

[Kretias]

Originally posted by von_bock:

Originally posted by rattus:

]If you cancel the mefo on day one you will get the +40% repayment debuff for a couple of months. (the longer you have mefo the longer that +40% period lasts and the higher the PP point to cancel). When that is finished if I read the files correctly, then you get an arbitrary 75% internal mefo factor that appears to be permanent

Jesus Christ. They really really don't know a thing about game design.

It is intended. You either go economic growth (which cancels the mefo bills without having to click the decission) or Four Year Plan (MEFO path) and deal with the consequences if you dont expand fast enough (economy of conquest).

[von_bock]

Originally posted by Kretias:

Originally posted by von_bock:

Jesus Christ. They really really don't know a thing about game design.

It is intended.

It' s hidden!

[Kretias]

Originally posted by von_bock:

Originally posted by Kretias:

It is intended.

It' s hidden!

Its not. You have one path that removes MEFO and one that works with MEFO. Reading the focuses helps.