I like the free DLC decision.

[Darth Fentanyl]

i already paid for 2 of the DLC but overall i think its a good move, more new people can get into HOI4 now.

[spike2071]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

spike2071 a écrit :

I wouldn't mind. I'd just download them for free. :)

Alright. What about the other DLCs you've bought. Or the game as a whole? Do you feel you've gotten your money's worth out of them yet?

If the answer is yes, then how would you feel if you lost access to them tomorrow?

Come on, man. My response was supposed to funny! Laugh, damnit. :)

Am I alone in this? Or is everyone losing their access? What's the rationale? Did the EU make another stupid law and now Paradox and others have to pull their games from Steam and Steam is required to make those games/DLCs unplayable?

Just tell me your argument instead of asking questions that require more questions.

Here is my logic, which I wrote in my first post. I like getting free games. I played Star Trek Online, but only after it went free to play. I got PayDay 2 for free on Steam. I got other games on GoG and Steam for free. I don't think that Company X is bad for giving me a free game because person Y paid Z dollars for it.

I also bought and paid for a subscription for Star Wars The Old Republic before it went free to play. I didn't care that it went free. I bought Field of Glory 2, and they offered it free about 6 months later. I didn't care. CK2, didn't care. I've seen plenty of games go for free on Epic that I've bought on Steam (right now there's one: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided). Good for those people who waited years and got it for free.

[AdmiralPiett]

spike2071 a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Alright. What about the other DLCs you've bought. Or the game as a whole? Do you feel you've gotten your money's worth out of them yet?

If the answer is yes, then how would you feel if you lost access to them tomorrow?

Come on, man. My response was supposed to funny! Laugh, damnit. :)

Am I alone in this? Or is everyone losing their access? What's the rationale? Did the EU make another stupid law and now Paradox and others have to pull their games from Steam and Steam is required to make those games/DLCs unplayable?

Just tell me your argument instead of asking questions that require more questions.

Here is my logic, which I wrote in my first post. I like getting free games. I played Star Trek Online, but only after it went free to play. I got PayDay 2 for free on Steam. I got other games on GoG and Steam for free. I don't think that Company X is bad for giving me a free game because person Y paid Z dollars for it.

I also bought and paid for a subscription for Star Wars The Old Republic before it went free to play. I didn't care that it went free. I bought Field of Glory 2, and they offered it free about 6 months later. I didn't care. CK2, didn't care. I've seen plenty of games go for free on Epic that I've bought on Steam (right now there's one: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided). Good for those people who waited years and got it for free.

Here's the argument I was trying to make:

If you were to be upset at PDX taking away your access even after you admitted you got your money's worth, that means you still attach some level of value to something you paid for and feel like you "own" even after you consider you got your money's worth out of it.

You wouldn't say "well at least I got to play it, good for other people that they get to play it now instead of me. Ho hum oh well". You'd be upset, and rightly so!

If you still attach some level of value to the product, even after you feel like you got your money's worth, then other people not having to pay for it is unfair to you as a consumer. For example, even if you used the hell out of your first car, you wouldn't just give it away for free when you were done using it, would you?

To make it clear: The issue is not the other players. We're not saying they're being unfair to you as fellow players by playing these things for free. We're not saying they're in the wrong as players.

We're saying it's unfair of PDX to treat paying loyal customers like this and treating new customers better than old loyal ones.




Here's another little thing to nibble on with your brain:

If PDX wanted to make the first 3 DLC free, why not just add them to the base game and remove them from sale entirely? Could it be because they plan on charging for them again in a few days/weeks/months once the bad press from the TOA launch dies down and they don't feel they have to make older DLC free to quell the PR fires? I'd be willing to bet money they will.

[spike2071]

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

So your own ego cannot let you let go of the fact that you were called spineless and lacking self respect (very tame, especially on the internet), and so that means you’re going to dig your heels in like a child and not agree with me, and not even consider doing so (everyone should be at-least open to changing your mind - you don’t have to agree with me, but you should be able to) but no. You can’t think critically as you yourself say because you were called spineless and lacking self-respect. Got it. How childish.

I gave you an assessment of your character. It wasn’t my intention to insult you, and it didn’t come from a malicious of nasty place. Again, you’re being very uncharitable and unfair - purposefully so - to interpret what I said in the worst possible light and most unkind way. I dispute that I was being insulting.

And do words not even mean anything anymore? If what you said I said is bullying and claim it to be bullying, my chair is actually a TV.

stop gaslighting and projecting; address what was said and stop having a hissyfit. or not I guess, because you won’t, and you’ll continue having a tantrum.

Wait...you said I had no self respect, but now I have too much of an ego. Which one is it? Lol, you can't even be consistent in your insults. How droll.

Yay! More insults. Yes, "childish" and calling me a "child" is insulting. You can dispute it, but you're wrong. Go up to someone in person and call them spineless, a bootlicker, and lacking self respect. See how they respond. :)

You didn't ask why I believe X, or dispute my logic for my opinion. You attacked my character from the beginning. You didn't attempt to persuade me. I had a different opinion, so you immediately insulted me.

Your chair could be a tv, if you happen to be sitting on your tv. Utterly stupid analogy aside, don't start insulting someone if you want to convince them with a rational conversation.

[spike2071]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Here's the argument I was trying to make:

If you were to be upset at PDX taking away your access even after you admitted you got your money's worth, that means you still attach some level of value to something you paid for and feel like you "own" even after you consider you got your money's worth out of it.

You wouldn't say "well at least I got to play it, good for other people that they get to play it now instead of me. Ho hum oh well". You'd be upset, and rightly so!

If you still attach some level of value to the product, even after you feel like you got your money's worth, then other people not having to pay for it is unfair to you as a consumer. For example, even if you used the hell out of your first car, you wouldn't just give it away for free when you were done using it, would you?

To make it clear: The issue is not the other players. We're not saying they're being unfair to you as fellow players by playing these things for free. We're not saying they're in the wrong as players.

We're saying it's unfair of PDX to treat paying loyal customers like this and treating new customers better than old loyal ones.




Here's another little thing to nibble on with your brain:

If PDX wanted to make the first 3 DLC free, why not just add them to the base game and remove them from sale entirely? Could it be because they plan on charging for them again in a few days/weeks/months once the bad press from the TOA launch dies down and they don't feel they have to make older DLC free to quell the PR fires? I'd be willing to bet money they will.

FuriousGamer, is how you argue.

Lol, ironically, I did give away my first car. Well, technically I sold it to my younger brother for $1, but that's pretty much the same thing. And I've given away my old Playstations/Xboxs for free to friends instead of selling them. I donate clothes, furniture, books, small appliances, etc. to Goodwill instead of listing them on Ebay or whatever.

Losing access to something you paid for is completely different from everyone else having access to the same thing that you paid for. Despite your explanation on the value of it, I honestly don't see that as having any bearing on what Paradox is doing.

Are you upset that people bought the DLCs at 50% off, or the base game at 75% off? To me, this is just an extension of that. You wait, you get X for cheaper. If you wait long enough, you might even get it for free. But you're also not playing it for 4, 5, or 6 years, just like the people who wait a year or two for 50% off aren't playing it for that time.

To be honest, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or you're wrong. If you feel mad at Paradox, feel mad. It's an opinion. Just like mine. That's why I didn't quote anyone or reply directly to anyone in my first post. It was just to throw some support for the OP who didn't own all 3, and to say that I don't care and I do own all 3. :)

And I'd bet money they don't renege on the free DLCs. Paradox can be pretty stupid, but even they're not that stupid.

[FuriousGamerHD]

spike2071 a écrit :

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

So your own ego cannot let you let go of the fact that you were called spineless and lacking self respect (very tame, especially on the internet), and so that means you’re going to dig your heels in like a child and not agree with me, and not even consider doing so (everyone should be at-least open to changing your mind - you don’t have to agree with me, but you should be able to) but no. You can’t think critically as you yourself say because you were called spineless and lacking self-respect. Got it. How childish.

I gave you an assessment of your character. It wasn’t my intention to insult you, and it didn’t come from a malicious of nasty place. Again, you’re being very uncharitable and unfair - purposefully so - to interpret what I said in the worst possible light and most unkind way. I dispute that I was being insulting.

And do words not even mean anything anymore? If what you said I said is bullying and claim it to be bullying, my chair is actually a TV.

stop gaslighting and projecting; address what was said and stop having a hissyfit. or not I guess, because you won’t, and you’ll continue having a tantrum.

Wait...you said I had no self respect, but now I have too much of an ego. Which one is it? Lol, you can't even be consistent in your insults. How droll.

Yay! More insults. Yes, "childish" and calling me a "child" is insulting. You can dispute it, but you're wrong. Go up to someone in person and call them spineless, a bootlicker, and lacking self respect. See how they respond. :)

You didn't ask why I believe X, or dispute my logic for my opinion. You attacked my character from the beginning. You didn't attempt to persuade me. I had a different opinion, so you immediately insulted me.

Your chair could be a tv, if you happen to be sitting on your tv. Utterly stupid analogy aside, don't start insulting someone if you want to convince them with a rational conversation.

ego and self-respect are two different concepts, not synonymous and not mutually exclusive. you are just arguing to argue at this point. You can have a big ego and no self respect, or have self respect and no ego.

The analogy was perfectly coherent. If you can stretch the definition of bullying to what you claim it is, then a chair can be a TV because definitions don’t mean anything.

I’m a very blunt and honest person. I have no problem going up to someone and saying that if I believe it. I wouldn’t be scared to, nor be intimidated not to - if that’s what you’re saying. I say it how I see it.

You can say i’m wrong - but in my books an insult requires intent to be insulting, or else it isn’t an insult. I didn’t intend to insult you. I have already explained this.

You are being childish and acting like a child. You are literally implying I must be nice to you and butter you up for you to contemplate even considering what i’m saying and whether it’s valid or not, or else you won’t. That is the level of pedantic-ness and stubbornness of a child. I can be as nasty and rude as possible - but it’s a separate issue. it doesn’t detract from the validity and soundness of my argument, reasoning and rational and shouldn’t affect your ability to consider them.

You came into this thread, having read everything that was already said up until that point, and said you found no issue with it. That’s your opinion to have and it’s fine, but you obviously knew we disagreed. You added nothing, and deliberately missed the point / dodged it all together.

All that said, and you still haven’t addressed my point.

[AdmiralPiett]

spike2071 a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Here's the argument I was trying to make:

If you were to be upset at PDX taking away your access even after you admitted you got your money's worth, that means you still attach some level of value to something you paid for and feel like you "own" even after you consider you got your money's worth out of it.

You wouldn't say "well at least I got to play it, good for other people that they get to play it now instead of me. Ho hum oh well". You'd be upset, and rightly so!

If you still attach some level of value to the product, even after you feel like you got your money's worth, then other people not having to pay for it is unfair to you as a consumer. For example, even if you used the hell out of your first car, you wouldn't just give it away for free when you were done using it, would you?

To make it clear: The issue is not the other players. We're not saying they're being unfair to you as fellow players by playing these things for free. We're not saying they're in the wrong as players.

We're saying it's unfair of PDX to treat paying loyal customers like this and treating new customers better than old loyal ones.




Here's another little thing to nibble on with your brain:

If PDX wanted to make the first 3 DLC free, why not just add them to the base game and remove them from sale entirely? Could it be because they plan on charging for them again in a few days/weeks/months once the bad press from the TOA launch dies down and they don't feel they have to make older DLC free to quell the PR fires? I'd be willing to bet money they will.

FuriousGamer, is how you argue.

Lol, ironically, I did give away my first car. Well, technically I sold it to my younger brother for $1, but that's pretty much the same thing. And I've given away my old Playstations/Xboxs for free to friends instead of selling them. I donate clothes, furniture, books, small appliances, etc. to Goodwill instead of listing them on Ebay or whatever.

Losing access to something you paid for is completely different from everyone else having access to the same thing that you paid for. Despite your explanation on the value of it, I honestly don't see that as having any bearing on what Paradox is doing.

Are you upset that people bought the DLCs at 50% off, or the base game at 75% off? To me, this is just an extension of that. You wait, you get X for cheaper. If you wait long enough, you might even get it for free. But you're also not playing it for 4, 5, or 6 years, just like the people who wait a year or two for 50% off aren't playing it for that time.

To be honest, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or you're wrong. If you feel mad at Paradox, feel mad. It's an opinion. Just like mine. That's why I didn't quote anyone or reply directly to anyone in my first post. It was just to throw some support for the OP who didn't own all 3, and to say that I don't care and I do own all 3. :)

And I'd bet money they don't renege on the free DLCs. Paradox can be pretty stupid, but even they're not that stupid.

To the first point, selling to family and friends is a special case so that doesn't really count. You wouldn't sell it on ebay, for example, for $1 or $0. My point on the value is to point out a hypocrisy in your argument: If you so firmly believe you got all your money's worth on those DLC, the other DLCs, or the base game, why should you care if they are taken away from you? If you did care, then clearly you feel like you're still under contract with PDX and thus should be treated as such.

To the second point, IDK if you saw it earlier and if you didn't it's fine, but to repeat:
A purchase being made less efficient by a sale is absolutely different in terms of principle than a purchase being made pointless/redundant/moot by a later giveaway. Hands-down.

And to the third point, all you have to do is look at the Leviathan scandal to see how stupid PDX can truly be

[FuriousGamerHD]

spike2071 a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Here's the argument I was trying to make:

If you were to be upset at PDX taking away your access even after you admitted you got your money's worth, that means you still attach some level of value to something you paid for and feel like you "own" even after you consider you got your money's worth out of it.

You wouldn't say "well at least I got to play it, good for other people that they get to play it now instead of me. Ho hum oh well". You'd be upset, and rightly so!

If you still attach some level of value to the product, even after you feel like you got your money's worth, then other people not having to pay for it is unfair to you as a consumer. For example, even if you used the hell out of your first car, you wouldn't just give it away for free when you were done using it, would you?

To make it clear: The issue is not the other players. We're not saying they're being unfair to you as fellow players by playing these things for free. We're not saying they're in the wrong as players.

We're saying it's unfair of PDX to treat paying loyal customers like this and treating new customers better than old loyal ones.




Here's another little thing to nibble on with your brain:

If PDX wanted to make the first 3 DLC free, why not just add them to the base game and remove them from sale entirely? Could it be because they plan on charging for them again in a few days/weeks/months once the bad press from the TOA launch dies down and they don't feel they have to make older DLC free to quell the PR fires? I'd be willing to bet money they will.

FuriousGamer, is how you argue.

Lol, ironically, I did give away my first car. Well, technically I sold it to my younger brother for $1, but that's pretty much the same thing. And I've given away my old Playstations/Xboxs for free to friends instead of selling them. I donate clothes, furniture, books, small appliances, etc. to Goodwill instead of listing them on Ebay or whatever.

Losing access to something you paid for is completely different from everyone else having access to the same thing that you paid for. Despite your explanation on the value of it, I honestly don't see that as having any bearing on what Paradox is doing.

Are you upset that people bought the DLCs at 50% off, or the base game at 75% off? To me, this is just an extension of that. You wait, you get X for cheaper. If you wait long enough, you might even get it for free. But you're also not playing it for 4, 5, or 6 years, just like the people who wait a year or two for 50% off aren't playing it for that time.

To be honest, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or you're wrong. If you feel mad at Paradox, feel mad. It's an opinion. Just like mine. That's why I didn't quote anyone or reply directly to anyone in my first post. It was just to throw some support for the OP who didn't own all 3, and to say that I don't care and I do own all 3. :)

And I'd bet money they don't renege on the free DLCs. Paradox can be pretty stupid, but even they're not that stupid.

giving away your things to family and friends is different to having something taken away from you, or given away involuntarily. That’s what admiral was getting at. You are obviously okay with giving stuff away to family and friends because there is a personal relationship and connection there, among other reasons and things.

[spike2071]

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

spike2071 a écrit :

Wait...you said I had no self respect, but now I have too much of an ego. Which one is it? Lol, you can't even be consistent in your insults. How droll.

Yay! More insults. Yes, "childish" and calling me a "child" is insulting. You can dispute it, but you're wrong. Go up to someone in person and call them spineless, a bootlicker, and lacking self respect. See how they respond. :)

You didn't ask why I believe X, or dispute my logic for my opinion. You attacked my character from the beginning. You didn't attempt to persuade me. I had a different opinion, so you immediately insulted me.

Your chair could be a tv, if you happen to be sitting on your tv. Utterly stupid analogy aside, don't start insulting someone if you want to convince them with a rational conversation.

ego and self-respect are two different concepts, not synonymous and not mutually exclusive. you are just arguing to argue at this point. You can have a big ego and no self respect, or self respect and no ego.

The analogy was perfectly coherent. If you can stretch the definition of bullying to what you claim it is, then a chair can be a TV because definitions don’t mean anything.

I’m a very blunt and honest person. I have no problem going up to someone and saying that if I believe it. I wouldn’t be scared to, nor be intimidated not to - if that’s what you’re saying. I say it how I see it.

You can say i’m wrong - but in my books an insult requires intent to be insulting, or else it isn’t an insult. I didn’t intend to insult you. I have already explained this.

You are being childish and acting like a child. You are literally implying I must be nice to you and butter you up for you to contemplate even considering what i’m saying and whether it’s valid or not, or else you won’t. That is the level of pedantic-ness and stubbornness of a child. I can be as nasty and rude as possible - but it’s a separate issue. it doesn’t detract from the validity and soundness of my argument, reasoning and rational and shouldn’t affect your ability to consider them.

You came into this thread, having read everything that was already said up until that point, and said you found no issue with it. That’s your opinion to have and it’s fine, but you obviously knew we disagreed. You added nothing, and deliberately missed the point / dodged it all together.

All that said, and you still haven’t addressed my point.

And that person would be insulted. Congratulations for completely missing the point.

But at least you admit you're nasty and rude. That's usually the first step to improving yourself, so we've made some progress here, today!

[FuriousGamerHD]

spike2071 a écrit :

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

ego and self-respect are two different concepts, not synonymous and not mutually exclusive. you are just arguing to argue at this point. You can have a big ego and no self respect, or self respect and no ego.

The analogy was perfectly coherent. If you can stretch the definition of bullying to what you claim it is, then a chair can be a TV because definitions don’t mean anything.

I’m a very blunt and honest person. I have no problem going up to someone and saying that if I believe it. I wouldn’t be scared to, nor be intimidated not to - if that’s what you’re saying. I say it how I see it.

You can say i’m wrong - but in my books an insult requires intent to be insulting, or else it isn’t an insult. I didn’t intend to insult you. I have already explained this.

You are being childish and acting like a child. You are literally implying I must be nice to you and butter you up for you to contemplate even considering what i’m saying and whether it’s valid or not, or else you won’t. That is the level of pedantic-ness and stubbornness of a child. I can be as nasty and rude as possible - but it’s a separate issue. it doesn’t detract from the validity and soundness of my argument, reasoning and rational and shouldn’t affect your ability to consider them.

You came into this thread, having read everything that was already said up until that point, and said you found no issue with it. That’s your opinion to have and it’s fine, but you obviously knew we disagreed. You added nothing, and deliberately missed the point / dodged it all together.

All that said, and you still haven’t addressed my point.

And that person would be insulted. Congratulations for completely missing the point.

But at least you admit you're nasty and rude. That's usually the first step to improving yourself, so we've made some progress here, today!

I never said I was nasty or rude. I said it doesn’t, and wouldn’t, matter if I was (or wasn’t), because it’s neither here nor there and it’s irrelevant.

You say I miss the point (your point), but I’ve asked you twice to address the point - my points that i’ve raised, and you still haven’t. This is now the third time.

What point did I miss? That I was insulting? You’ve already said that like five times, and i’ve already addressed that and explained about five times. There was literally no other point in your post, and i’ve already addressed that repeatedly and did so again.

You also did not address a single thing in that large post - not one - apart from misconstruing what I said by imagining I made an admission to be nasty and rude lmao, when I was just saying it doesn’t matter if i’m rude or nasty because it’s beside the point. You’re just trying to score points, but again, you must remember that anyone reading this can go back and read what’s said - and it’s also quoted in the replies lol. I suspect you have ran out of things to say to continue arguing with me, because i’ve debunked and refuted them all, and because there’s nothing in my post for you to pick apart. I have picked apart everything you said, and you have no response or clever retort to say - so your last act is to invent an admission of me being rude and nasty lmao. Which is ironic, as I literally said that’s neither here nor there in my last post and it’s irrelevant to the arguments and debate and points made.

[spike2071]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

spike2071 a écrit :

FuriousGamer, is how you argue.

Lol, ironically, I did give away my first car. Well, technically I sold it to my younger brother for $1, but that's pretty much the same thing. And I've given away my old Playstations/Xboxs for free to friends instead of selling them. I donate clothes, furniture, books, small appliances, etc. to Goodwill instead of listing them on Ebay or whatever.

Losing access to something you paid for is completely different from everyone else having access to the same thing that you paid for. Despite your explanation on the value of it, I honestly don't see that as having any bearing on what Paradox is doing.

Are you upset that people bought the DLCs at 50% off, or the base game at 75% off? To me, this is just an extension of that. You wait, you get X for cheaper. If you wait long enough, you might even get it for free. But you're also not playing it for 4, 5, or 6 years, just like the people who wait a year or two for 50% off aren't playing it for that time.

To be honest, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or you're wrong. If you feel mad at Paradox, feel mad. It's an opinion. Just like mine. That's why I didn't quote anyone or reply directly to anyone in my first post. It was just to throw some support for the OP who didn't own all 3, and to say that I don't care and I do own all 3. :)

And I'd bet money they don't renege on the free DLCs. Paradox can be pretty stupid, but even they're not that stupid.

To the first point, selling to family and friends is a special case so that doesn't really count. You wouldn't sell it on ebay, for example, for $1 or $0. My point on the value is to point out a hypocrisy in your argument: If you so firmly believe you got all your money's worth on those DLC, the other DLCs, or the base game, why should you care if they are taken away from you? If you did care, then clearly you feel like you're still under contract with PDX and thus should be treated as such.

To the second point, IDK if you saw it earlier and if you didn't it's fine, but to repeat:
A purchase being made less efficient by a sale is absolutely different in terms of principle than a purchase being made pointless/redundant/moot by a later giveaway. Hands-down.

And to the third point, all you have to do is look at the Leviathan scandal to see how stupid PDX can truly be

And all the stuff I've donated to Goodwill? And frankly, family and friends doesn't matter. It's simply that I know them and their needs. If a stranger could convince me of their needs, I'd give them something I no longer needed. But again, this has nothing to do with what Paradox is doing. I'm not losing access to anything. You're not losing access to anything.

I'm under contract with Paradox to play my game. I don't care if they give the game away for free to others. Again, me losing access to something is completely different than other people gaining access. Apparently you disagree.

Well.

I disagree that a purchase being made less efficient through a sale is hands down completely different than giving something away. So you'd be ok with them selling it for $.01? That would make everything fine? :)

Leviathan was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release. That's nothing like giving away something for free forever and then charging for it later. But that's why I said they can be stupid, but I don't think they're that stupid.

Have you never downloaded a game that was made free? What about a free to play weekend? Is it fair that someone gets to try out a game and decide they don't like it when there are thousands of people who bought it and wished they could refund it?

I don't agree with your views on this. You don't agree with mine. We can keep arguing, but the basic building blocks of how we view this aren't compatible. :)

[spike2071]

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

spike2071 a écrit :

And that person would be insulted. Congratulations for completely missing the point.

But at least you admit you're nasty and rude. That's usually the first step to improving yourself, so we've made some progress here, today!

I never said I was nasty or rude. I said it doesn’t, and wouldn’t, matter if I was (or wasn’t), because it’s neither here nor there and it’s irrelevant.

You say I miss the point (your point), but I’ve asked you twice to address the point - my points that i’ve raised, and you still haven’t. This is now the third time.

What point did I miss? That I was insulting? You’ve already said that like five times, and i’ve already addressed that and explained about five times. There was literally no other point in your post, and i’ve already addressed that repeatedly and did so again.

You also did not address a single thing in that large post - not one - apart from misconstruing what I said by imagining I made an admission to be nasty and rude lmao, when I was just saying it doesn’t matter if i’m rude or nasty because it’s beside the point. You’re just trying to score points, but again, you must remember that anyone reading this can go back and read what’s said - and it’s also quoted in the replies lol. I suspect you have ran out of things to say to continue arguing with me, because i’ve debunked and refuted them all, and because there’s nothing in my post for you to pick apart. I have picked apart everything you said, and you have no response or clever retort to say - so your last act is to invent an admission of me being rude and nasty lmao. Which is ironic, as I literally said that’s neither here nor there in my last post and it’s irrelevant to the arguments and debate and points made.

You said, "I can be as nasty and rude as possible - but it’s a separate issue." I agree.

You've debunked nothing, because you've made no points. All you've done is insult me.

You seem to think we're arguing. We're not. You insulted me. I called you out on it. You can keep writing paragraphs of inanity, though. It's pretty funny.

You should seriously look at Piett's last few posts to learn how to argue. Good luck.

[AdmiralPiett]

spike2071 a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

To the first point, selling to family and friends is a special case so that doesn't really count. You wouldn't sell it on ebay, for example, for $1 or $0. My point on the value is to point out a hypocrisy in your argument: If you so firmly believe you got all your money's worth on those DLC, the other DLCs, or the base game, why should you care if they are taken away from you? If you did care, then clearly you feel like you're still under contract with PDX and thus should be treated as such.

To the second point, IDK if you saw it earlier and if you didn't it's fine, but to repeat:
A purchase being made less efficient by a sale is absolutely different in terms of principle than a purchase being made pointless/redundant/moot by a later giveaway. Hands-down.

And to the third point, all you have to do is look at the Leviathan scandal to see how stupid PDX can truly be

And all the stuff I've donated to Goodwill? And frankly, family and friends doesn't matter. It's simply that I know them and their needs. If a stranger could convince me of their needs, I'd give them something I no longer needed. But again, this has nothing to do with what Paradox is doing. I'm not losing access to anything. You're not losing access to anything.

I'm under contract with Paradox to play my game. I don't care if they give the game away for free to others. Again, me losing access to something is completely different than other people gaining access. Apparently you disagree.

Well.

I disagree that a purchase being made less efficient through a sale is hands down completely different than giving something away. So you'd be ok with them selling it for $.01? That would make everything fine? :)

Leviathan was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release. That's nothing like giving away something for free forever and then charging for it later. But that's why I said they can be stupid, but I don't think they're that stupid.

Have you never downloaded a game that was made free? What about a free to play weekend? Is it fair that someone gets to try out a game and decide they don't like it when there are thousands of people who bought it and wished they could refund it?

I don't agree with your views on this. You don't agree with mine. We can keep arguing, but the basic building blocks of how view this aren't compatible. :)

Just because you are charitable with personal belongings has no bearing on how PDX treats loyal paying customers who've paid them hundreds of dollars for years.

I would honestly be more OK with a sale of any size that isn't a 100% discount. Sales are a well regarded and fair tactic to generate more purchases. Giveaways are a slap in the face of paying customers.

Leviathan wasn't just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release, it was a treatise on how not to handle community relations and treat your customer base. Most of the scandal wasn't actually the quality of the release, it was how PDX handled the criticism and looked down their nose at the majority upset customers. It showed a growing attitude at PDX of lack of care for the consumer and focus on download numbers as opposed to community reputation. It fits right into this current nightmare perfectly. Have a good reputation, and the downloads will come. Focus on the downloads alone (by doing things like making old DLCs free) and the reputation will go down and eventually so too will the downloads.

Free weekend you say? I though PDX would never make something free then charge for it again later? :)

[FuriousGamerHD]

spike2071 a écrit :

FuriousGamerHD a écrit :

I never said I was nasty or rude. I said it doesn’t, and wouldn’t, matter if I was (or wasn’t), because it’s neither here nor there and it’s irrelevant.

You say I miss the point (your point), but I’ve asked you twice to address the point - my points that i’ve raised, and you still haven’t. This is now the third time.

What point did I miss? That I was insulting? You’ve already said that like five times, and i’ve already addressed that and explained about five times. There was literally no other point in your post, and i’ve already addressed that repeatedly and did so again.

You also did not address a single thing in that large post - not one - apart from misconstruing what I said by imagining I made an admission to be nasty and rude lmao, when I was just saying it doesn’t matter if i’m rude or nasty because it’s beside the point. You’re just trying to score points, but again, you must remember that anyone reading this can go back and read what’s said - and it’s also quoted in the replies lol. I suspect you have ran out of things to say to continue arguing with me, because i’ve debunked and refuted them all, and because there’s nothing in my post for you to pick apart. I have picked apart everything you said, and you have no response or clever retort to say - so your last act is to invent an admission of me being rude and nasty lmao. Which is ironic, as I literally said that’s neither here nor there in my last post and it’s irrelevant to the arguments and debate and points made.

You said, "I can be as nasty and rude as possible - but it’s a separate issue." I agree.

You've debunked nothing, because you've made no points. All you've done is insult me.

You seem to think we're arguing. We're not. You insulted me. I called you out on it You can keep writing paragraphs of inanity, though. It's pretty funny.

You should seriously look at Piett's last few posts to learn how to argue. Good luck.

gaslight, deflect, dodge, misinterpret, misconstrue, exaggerated, lie, twist, invert, manipulate and contort. that’s your playbook.

got it.

I said I can be as nasty and rude as possible. Correct. I used it in the present tense, not the past tense. It makes no difference, but you don’t understand. ‘I COULD be as nasty and rude as possible’. It’s hypothetical. I was saying I could be, but it’s immaterial and irrelevant.

anyone reading can see the multiple different points i’ve raised since we started talking.

I ‘insulted’ you once. I said you were spineless and lacking in self respect (completely tame). You were crying about it, going on and on and on about it. You said you wouldn’t consider what I was saying as I was meanie to you. I called you childish because of that. You then played the victim - again, screeching that i’d insulted and ‘bullied’ you - again, and you started another tantrum about that. You are a perpetual victim, and use it as an excuse to dodge actually answering anything!

I have to keep writing paragraphs to defend myself from your hyperboles, exaggerations, misrepresentations, lies, twisting, contorting, manipulating, strawmanning and misconstruing what i’ve said, and go point by point to debunk and refute it all, as i’ve not having someone lie about, and to, me.

[spike2071]

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

spike2071 a écrit :

And all the stuff I've donated to Goodwill? And frankly, family and friends doesn't matter. It's simply that I know them and their needs. If a stranger could convince me of their needs, I'd give them something I no longer needed. But again, this has nothing to do with what Paradox is doing. I'm not losing access to anything. You're not losing access to anything.

I'm under contract with Paradox to play my game. I don't care if they give the game away for free to others. Again, me losing access to something is completely different than other people gaining access. Apparently you disagree.

Well.

I disagree that a purchase being made less efficient through a sale is hands down completely different than giving something away. So you'd be ok with them selling it for $.01? That would make everything fine? :)

Leviathan was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release. That's nothing like giving away something for free forever and then charging for it later. But that's why I said they can be stupid, but I don't think they're that stupid.

Have you never downloaded a game that was made free? What about a free to play weekend? Is it fair that someone gets to try out a game and decide they don't like it when there are thousands of people who bought it and wished they could refund it?

I don't agree with your views on this. You don't agree with mine. We can keep arguing, but the basic building blocks of how view this aren't compatible. :)

Just because you are charitable with personal belongings has no bearing on how PDX treats loyal paying customers who've paid them hundreds of dollars for years.

I would honestly be more OK with a sale of any size that isn't a 100% discount. Sales are a well regarded and fair tactic to generate more purchases. Giveaways are a slap in the face of paying customers.

Leviathan wasn't just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release, it was a treatise on how not to handle community relations and treat your customer base. Most of the scandal wasn't actually the quality of the release, it was how PDX handled the criticism and looked down their nose at the majority upset customers. It showed a growing attitude at PDX of lack of care for the consumer and focus on download numbers as opposed to community reputation. It fits right into this current nightmare perfectly. Have a good reputation, and the downloads will come. Focus on the downloads alone (by doing things like making old DLCs free) and the reputation will go down and eventually so too will the downloads.

Free weekend you say? I though PDX would never make something free then charge for it again later? :)

Lol, that's why I said, "free forever...." :)

I didn't follow Leviathan. I just saw it was a poorly reviewed DLC and moved on. You might be right, but I'd put money on them not charging for these DLCs later (a small amount, but I'd still bet).

I agree that my giving/selling stuff has nothing to with it. That's why I questioned the whole argument in the first place.

I don't think giveaways are a slap in the face of paying customers. I've been on the receiving end, so even if I disagreed with giveaways, it would be hypocritical of me to complain when I'm on the other side. Thankfully, I don't disagree, so I can sleep soundly at night. :)

Which is where I'm headed. Thanks for turning the conversation around and having a nice argument. Sleep well (if it's that time in your neck of the woods).

[AdmiralPiett]

spike2071 a écrit :

AdmiralPiett a écrit :

Just because you are charitable with personal belongings has no bearing on how PDX treats loyal paying customers who've paid them hundreds of dollars for years.

I would honestly be more OK with a sale of any size that isn't a 100% discount. Sales are a well regarded and fair tactic to generate more purchases. Giveaways are a slap in the face of paying customers.

Leviathan wasn't just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ release, it was a treatise on how not to handle community relations and treat your customer base. Most of the scandal wasn't actually the quality of the release, it was how PDX handled the criticism and looked down their nose at the majority upset customers. It showed a growing attitude at PDX of lack of care for the consumer and focus on download numbers as opposed to community reputation. It fits right into this current nightmare perfectly. Have a good reputation, and the downloads will come. Focus on the downloads alone (by doing things like making old DLCs free) and the reputation will go down and eventually so too will the downloads.

Free weekend you say? I though PDX would never make something free then charge for it again later? :)

Lol, that's why I said, "free forever...." :)

I didn't follow Leviathan. I just saw it was a poorly reviewed DLC and moved on. You might be right, but I'd put money on them not charging for these DLCs later (a small amount, but I'd still bet).

I agree that my giving/selling stuff has nothing to with it. That's why I questioned the whole argument in the first place.

I don't think giveaways are a slap in the face of paying customers. I've been on the receiving end, so even if I disagreed with giveaways, it would be hypocritical of me to complain when I'm on the other side. Thankfully, I don't disagree, so I can sleep soundly at night. :)

Which is where I'm headed. Thanks for turning the conversation around and having a nice argument. Sleep well (if it's that time in your neck of the woods).

Several people at PDX PR got fired for Leviathan. It made not only gaming news, but MAINSTREAM news it was that bad.

You brought up special case conditions of giving/selling stuff to strawman my argument away. That's not very cool of you. I feel insulted now too.