The eternal debate of line artillery

[Lilly Satou]

My 'I-have-played-this-game-for-2000-hours' friend heavily insists on me using 9/4 division and superiour firepower doctrine every game no matter what (unless it's some minor with one and a half factories. I, however, have found a lot of discussions (old and new) on various forums that question the usefulness of line arty, most of them claiming it is too expensive to produce in bulk, eats too much supply, lowers other stats too much. Myself I noticed that when I try to push with that kind of divisions, I absolutely burn through my equipment stockpile of artillery (just now I was playing as the US and joined the war against Russia, spent like a thousand (out of four) taking Estonia and Latvia back). Recently I finished my fascist Germany WC using 9/0, mainly relying on CAS and using tanks occasionally and had no trouble pushing anyone.

Now, I myself only have 300 hours, but from personal experience, I'd rather put my factories on producing more infantry equipment, planes and tanks that are more versatile and long-lasting than artillery that melts like butter. What am I missing? Surely his 2000 hours of experience can't lie, despite my experience contradicting his. Am I using line arty wrong somehow?

[Blind]

From what I've experienced. Line artillery works great on defense, but for offense that stats fall short. They way I see it primarily reflects the combat width of the line artillery battalion vs something like a tank. The art is 3 and the tank is 2. Lets take a look at this chart based on germany starting battalions in 1936.

Unit--------infy/artillery/Light tank
width----------2/3/2
soft/width-----3/8.3/7.5
hard/width----0.5/0.66/2.5
defense-------11/3.33/1.15
breakthrough-1.5/2/12.2
piercing-------2/1.66/10
armor------------------13

As you can see. the overall attack power of a tank battalion vs an artillery is quite close. It will surpass the artillery by a decent bit if you install a close support gun (will lose some hard attack/width). This combined with breakthrough makes offense with a tank a clear superior choice over artillery. The counter to that being defense where a combination of infy and artillery offer a marginally better defensive situation than an offense based tank platform. Additionally the organization debuff from tanks impacts defense capabilities too.

Now onto space marines. I think they can do well with both tanks and line artillery, but I think they shine offensively without the artillery while still being defensively capable once the armor is bumped up. The key is to have separate divisions for separate roles. I hope this information helps to refine your conclusion. I still haven't made a final decision yet either tbh. haha

[CH13F]

you forgetting the fact that not every country can have the economy to trade rubber and oil, especially early on. im not even going to mention required army exp to design a tank and a tank division early on.

honestly arty isnt that expensive, i myself always end up with thousands spare in stockpiles, even when im going against a major as a minor. put 10-15 mils on it and just forget about it. its enough for a long time, provided :

idk what you doing wrong to lose that much arty? are you microing or just letting marshall to go nuts? are you attacking heavily stacked and well supplied tiles? attacking bad terrain, especially like mountains?

there re lotta factors goes into this.

i think there s no single perfect recipe, its all situational. i can count many countries that cant sustain even a 9/1 at start ,let alone 9/4, and a tank division or strong airforce is just a dream.

[Dedelblute3]

I think it really just depends on what works for you
Do Inf+Arty pushes work for you? If they don't, don't invest in Inf+Arty. Do tank pushes work for you? If they don't, don't invest in tanks. Does providing CAS help you push? If not, don't invest in CAS. Personally, I prefer Inf+Arty pushes, but that's just because those are what works for me. Go with whatever wins for you.

[CWord]

i just realized i dont even know a single thing about this game

[HappySack]

Unless you're a sweaty try hard who only uses support artillery and never line artillery because it's "meta" then it doesn't matter. As the main issue with line artillery is that you lose too much org and HP from it (as both cause your divisions to take more equipment and manpower losses in addition to greater losses from attrition) as you're relying on breaking the enemy division quickly for it to be effective.

Do whatever works for you with or without line artillery and tell your friend to shove all his artillery up his ass.

[Zerian VySil]

If you're playing Single Player, Grand Battle Plan's Planning Bonus has been shown to outperform Mobile Warfare for Tanks, and is far better for all your other units than MW.

SF is just quick and dirty, and reduces the need for thinking and planning. Perfect if you're not building tanks.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Do whatever works for you with or without line artillery and tell your friend to shove all his artillery up his ass.

I have to go with that.

I tried the whole 7/2 meta many times and quite honestly it aint nearly as good for defense as people think. For a quick combat it does really well, however if the AI goes into a continuous siege mode those 7/2 always fall eventually simply because they lack the defense and organization.

It also depends upon the nation focuses as well. For example the South American focus trees have a crapton of artillery bonuses.

Also have to keep in mind your 9/0 division has a high defense and low damage, which means it drags out combat, combat being dragged out can be a good thing.
- Generals and units gain more xp
- More chances for CAS to do their thing and gain xp
- Creates a constant drain on the AI equipment, manpower, and supply.
- More combat damage done and casualties for war participation points.
- Long battles can also yield medals if a unit stays in combat long enough.

Having meta templates that just melt everything leads to units and generals never gaining much xp. I learned this the hard way playing with Chinese Warlords where you generals suck and the AI comes at you in the late 40s with level 8 and 9 generals.